Episode 105: America First - Part 5

WEBVTT

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So, welcome back. To recap, all of the elements

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that we've looked at that are present in the

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political spectrum of the 1930s, nativism, xenophobia,

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isolationism, opposition to Roosevelt, and anti

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-Semitism. They are going to contribute to the

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development of the America First Committee that

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would oppose US involvement in World War II and

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complicate Roosevelt's attempts to provide support

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to the Allies. But first, why don't we look at

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what these organizations, as pitiful as they

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are in retrospect, they were taken a little bit

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more seriously at the time, what they did in

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terms of their attempts to deny Roosevelt a second

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term here. In retrospect, this looks ridiculous,

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just given what the outcome is going to be. uh

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because of the egos that we see in some of these

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organizations and the kind of crank constituency

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and i'll just say i am not covering everything

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and every element otherwise we would need several

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several parts to this particular podcast but

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suffice to say these represent a lot of cranks

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there's really no attempt to fuse any of these

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disparate elements um to create a kind of popular

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front against Roosevelt here. Welcome to the

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United States of Amnesia. You found us. Thank

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you. We are the podcast that reminds us of what

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we have forgotten. It is often said that history

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repeats itself. Mark Twain allegedly said that

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history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

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Ecclesiastes probably said it best in chapter

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1 verse 9, quote, everything that has been will

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be again. Everything that has been done will

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be done again. There is nothing new under the

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sun, close quote. But over time many topics have

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become clouded by biases and oversimplifications

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or have become mythologized and now are misunderstood.

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Misunderstanding means learning the wrong lessons

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from history, perhaps, or even learning nothing

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at all. And that can leave us poorly prepared

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for history's next rhyme. Your hosts are Marshall

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Newman, Mike Mendenhall, and myself, Blake Henke.

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In this podcast, we will cover topics of history,

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politics, and religion, and how they interact,

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and also how they relate. to modern day events

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and themes. We will try to cut through the biases

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over simplifications and myths, to learn better

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lessons from the past, and to see what they can

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tell us about the present and maybe even the

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future. In this episode 105 of our America First

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series, We cover the disparate America First

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movements, if you can call them that, as opposition

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to Roosevelt in the lead up to World War II and

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ultimately the formation of the America First

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Committee in 1940, which coalesced some of these

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disparate movements into a more unified opposition,

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not only to Roosevelt, but our entry into World

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War II. The America first movement is representing

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it isn't representing a coherent Worldview or

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a coherent set of principles really. Yeah, it's

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it's really just a bunch of emotions Right dress

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dressed up as a movement. Yeah, and you don't

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you can't even call it a movement at this point

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because things have been shattered by the depression

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and The Republicans are attempting to double

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down on the 20s Uh the the nominee alf landon

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who is the governor of kansas He is called the

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kansas coolidge and this is the 19 which election

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1936 36 election 1936 election. Yeah alf landon

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Uh, he is going to run with a guy named nox Who

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you may recall later becomes secretary of the

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navy under roosevelt frank nox. Yes world war

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two secretary of the navy. Yes so but this is

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his running mate. But they're not necessarily

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reaching out and courting any of these fringe

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elements in any appreciable factor, and they're

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kind of running things on their own here. They're

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kind of going off as as as forming third -party

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groups. There's guy named Lemke that was running

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that had the blessing of Father Coughlin They're

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not really creating a coherent opposition and

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I will argue Roosevelt doesn't really have much

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of a coherent opposition up until the Supreme

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Court and then Packing scheme and then not even

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really then You know, he's gonna get he's gonna

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have some issues in the election 1940 but he

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his his opposition if you look at electoral histories

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of 1936 the the history of that election It doesn't

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look good for Roosevelt in 35 There's all sorts

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of things that could go wrong, and this is always

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the case with elections. There's all these things,

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these events, that could, if they are not handled

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or they're not addressed or they are prosecuted

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fully, things can turn out quite differently.

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But in the case of Roosevelt, Roosevelt had just

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amazing luck in the fact that His major opposition

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was kind of tone deaf to the American populace

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as a whole in terms of what they aspire to. Polling

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is also incredibly primitive. There used to be

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something called Literary Digest and Literary

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Digest was this sort of elite magazine that was

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delivered to people. They did a poll and they

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found out that Landon was just going to win by

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a walk. they also did polling, and this was something

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that persisted up to 48, exclusively by people

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who had telephones. Hey guys, it's the depression.

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Not everybody can afford a phone. Not everybody

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lit, not everybody who can vote has a phone.

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And, you know, particularly if we're dealing

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with people in the rural part of America who

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have no electricity yet, you know, you can't

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have a phone, you know. These are these are these

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are things that people just aren't thinking about

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these are people that have kind of like an urban

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centric View that this is how everybody has to

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be living because they're so out of touch Okay,

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can I ask you though so I Think what you're telling

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me but just to clarify for me and sure the listener

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or if we're lucky listeners Um the lucky listeners

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the lucky listeners Um, so in 1936 so you're

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telling me that the republican are you telling

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the republican party was was was or was not running

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on some kind of america first, um platform it

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could be or they were were they ignoring america

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first but there were these disparate groups of

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america firsters out there separately third party

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people or what do you what do you well both in

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the sense that they were they were they were

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kind of doubling down on their traditional like

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America First rhetoric from like the 20s. They

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the Republicans. They the Republicans are doubling

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down on this and they're like they're they're

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like taking these elements that had kind of come

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into play in the 20s they were using them as

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a kind of reflection of that original term America

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First that came out in the election 1920s. So

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wait don't tell me let me guess. So the thinking

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here is Roosevelt's been in office for two three

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years now. Yeah. There's still the depression,

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it's not over with yet. See, he has failed. You

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know, in the 20s, we had a great economic success

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back then. Unless you run a farm. Let's not talk

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about that. Yes, let's not talk about that. So,

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let's do what we did back in the 20s, because

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that was great back then. Yes. Even though it

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caused the depression. That's beside the point,

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right? This is the way they were running. This

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is where they were running and they're basically

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saying that, you know, we need to kind of, you

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know, get rid of all these excessive regulations

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and so forth. We need to get rid of things like

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Social Security, which is which has already come

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through by about 35. But which had actually not

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paid any money out. Not yet. But, you know, but

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OK, but just it's there. It's a threat. Well,

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there's also a lot of jobs programs which they

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objected to. Right. You know, and I'm going to

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I'm going to say this. This is what kind of solidified,

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probably more so than anything, support for Roosevelt,

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because people are getting jobs. You know, they

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may not be great jobs. They may be like planting

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trees type jobs. The CCC. The CCC. You know,

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we have not too far from here, along Fort Hunt

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Road and along the GW Parkway here in Alexandria,

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that was a former CCC camp. you know, this is

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where Mrs. Roosevelt went and would regularly

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visit them. And it's true that we often look

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back on things the CCC did and such, and it was,

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like you said, not great jobs, but they were

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jobs, planting trees and stuff like that, right?

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There were actually professional -level jobs

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that were supported by the Roosevelt administration

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eventually. I'm not sure when these things started.

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You might know better than I would. But there

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were things like supporting the arts. Yeah. I

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know that there used to be an organization called

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the Coast and Geodetic Survey. Yes. It was one

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of the ancestor organizations of NOAA that we

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have, right? Anyway, I remember reading somewhere

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that the Coast and Geodetic Survey had hired

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lots of scientists and engineers to work for

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the Coast and Geodetic Survey, partly because

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they needed them, but also because it was a jobs

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program for scientists and engineers. Right?

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So there was a whole gamut of jobs at different

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levels of education and professions and whatever,

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anything from laborers on up that were being

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supported. And it made the difference because

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a lot of people, alright, so there's like the

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WPA and the PWA, okay, you had this pot of money,

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okay, one of the things that got developed out

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of the PWA, they used that money to build aircraft

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carriers. Two of the aircraft carriers at Midway

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were built under the auspices of the New Deal

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You know as a jobs program and you're making

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me think too again I was like I said, I was reading

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nothing about what the coastal genetic survey

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did They had they had ships to that went out

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and did surveys. Yes They were US government

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ships and they were doing things like renovating

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those ships Right doing overhauls on them and

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things and they were using money. I'm not sure

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which Which pocket alphabet soups it came from

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I don't remember but but but that kind of money

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To fund people to work on those ships and that

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again was part of it There are long -term benefits

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that come out of these jobs programs. It wasn't

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just it wasn't welfare It was basically something

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that actually improved the physical plant of

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the United States There are roads that were built

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there were schools that were built there were

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post offices that were being built infrastructure

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infrastructure You know, that is what, that's

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kind of what you got. And I mean, even when we're

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talking about planting trees, these trees are

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being planted to prevent erosion. So there is

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a kind, it's not just let's go plant trees in

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the ground. There is an actual scientific approach

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to how you're utilizing these forces to protect

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U .S. national resources. There was even an element

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of that that was trying to address the dust bowl.

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Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So the GOP and 36, they

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were against helping people. Or against all these

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jobs that the federal government is doing. Right,

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so what I'm saying, they're against helping people.

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Are they also against the positive results of

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having done that, like having better infrastructure?

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Or do they bring that up? They didn't bring that

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up. That's not something they're addressing.

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They think this is all just, you're paying people

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like... too much money to go and pick up leaves

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in parks. That's what they kind of perceived

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the New Deal to be about. Who needs more trees

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anyway? Who needs more trees anyway, yes. I'm

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just going to go off on a little bit of a tangent

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here, which we'll see where that develops. In

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2008, we kind of have parallels between the Great

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Depression and what happened in then. We have

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a kind of meltdown of the financial situation.

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What we didn't have, what we didn't do, And I

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think there are, this is where we're seeing consequences

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today. We didn't have programs, government programs

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that came in and actually dealt with the dispossessed

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like we did during during Roosevelt's time. And

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I think this leads to populism and populism leads

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to demagogues. Say no more. Yes, but there's

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also a contradiction there, right? because the

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people who tend to find these populist ideas,

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movements, whatever term you want to use, find

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those popular. Appealing. Appealing. Also tend

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to be against helping people that are dispossessed

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in some way. And I think that dates back to what

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you were talking about was the moral element

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of other times where it was immoral in some way

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to be unsuccessful. It was immoral to need the

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help of someone else, right? As long as they're

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not them. It shows that you're a failure, right?

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And why should I help these failures who brought

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it on themselves? They should pull themselves

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up by their bootstraps. Yeah. But the thing about

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it is they tend to apply that to people they

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don't like. Yes. Not to people they like. People

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they like, you should help them. Well, I mean,

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like in 2008, what we saw was that people arrogantly

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bought too much house. Yes, they bought too much

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house and they lost their life savings and some

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were tricked into buying too much. Yes Well,

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that's my point predatory loans and that's my

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point people People are basically getting these

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loans, which they know people are not going to

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be able to pay for right they're gonna take their

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life savings to do it and then Who are we going

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to blame? These arrogant people who wanted like

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a six -bedroom mansion, which they were told

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was something that they could afford if they

00:15:47.429 --> 00:15:51.429
put this money down, and then not the people,

00:15:51.710 --> 00:15:55.809
the people that actually ended up in 2008 going

00:15:55.809 --> 00:15:59.529
and doing this, they got their bonuses because

00:15:59.529 --> 00:16:03.970
they had to get their bonuses. And I know enough

00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:06.610
people who I went to school with who were saying,

00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.840
I deserve this. This attitude, though, is something

00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:13.799
not unlike to get this back to the 30s here.

00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.019
The attitude that people who were part of the

00:16:17.019 --> 00:16:19.919
financial industry back then, they felt the same

00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:24.379
way, that they were superior people who deserved

00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:28.179
all that life could afford them, and they should

00:16:28.179 --> 00:16:31.500
not have to pay high taxes to deal with the victims

00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:35.779
of their mishandling of the American economic

00:16:35.779 --> 00:16:39.019
system. And I mean, it's kind of their fault

00:16:39.019 --> 00:16:41.919
that the depression is there because they've

00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:45.419
been doing all these things to kind of undermine

00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:49.379
stability for profit. It's one thing to blame,

00:16:49.379 --> 00:16:51.179
you know, arrogant people that feel they deserve

00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:52.860
more house than they could afford and got themselves

00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:55.440
in trouble, right? If you're an idiot and did

00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:57.460
that and you got what was coming to you, I can

00:16:57.460 --> 00:16:59.700
understand the line of argument. You made your

00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:01.679
bed and now you gotta lie in it, dummy. I get

00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:06.160
that. But in the 2008 example, I read stories

00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:10.160
about how there were a woman from a village,

00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:12.579
a rural area in Guatemala or Honduras had come

00:17:12.579 --> 00:17:14.519
up here to work as a maid. And so here she is

00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:16.220
with all these fancy suits telling her, you could

00:17:16.220 --> 00:17:18.740
afford that four or $500 ,000 house now. You're

00:17:18.740 --> 00:17:20.720
in America, line of opportunity. She doesn't

00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:22.450
know. She doesn't have any financial sophistication.

00:17:22.549 --> 00:17:24.849
Okay, sign here. A lot of people do. Then guess

00:17:24.849 --> 00:17:26.930
what? She couldn't afford that house. But it

00:17:26.930 --> 00:17:28.210
didn't matter because those guys walked off with

00:17:28.210 --> 00:17:31.309
their bonuses. Yeah. I mean, this recurs over

00:17:31.309 --> 00:17:34.410
time, right? Yeah. It's, you know, I owe my soul

00:17:34.410 --> 00:17:36.490
to the company store kind of thing, right? That

00:17:36.490 --> 00:17:39.710
dates way back where you had the, right? The

00:17:39.710 --> 00:17:41.390
things where you could only buy from the company

00:17:41.390 --> 00:17:43.329
store and then they overcharge you and whatever

00:17:43.329 --> 00:17:46.269
and you know, you wind up being a wage slave

00:17:46.269 --> 00:17:48.789
of a company or something, right? This kind of

00:17:48.789 --> 00:17:51.680
corporate malfeasance keeps recurring. And that's

00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.839
why you need regulations. Which is why you need

00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:55.259
regulations, because people don't necessarily

00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:56.980
do what's good for other people, they do what's

00:17:56.980 --> 00:17:59.480
advantageous themselves. A short -term advantage.

00:17:59.779 --> 00:18:01.579
We digress, but I'm just trying to keep looking

00:18:01.579 --> 00:18:03.900
for through lines through this, the kind of thinking,

00:18:03.980 --> 00:18:06.700
the kind of mentality. Yeah. And some of the

00:18:06.700 --> 00:18:08.779
mentality here is, why should I care about people

00:18:08.779 --> 00:18:11.259
I don't know or don't like? And as long as something

00:18:11.259 --> 00:18:13.740
benefits me, I'm in favor of it. But if that

00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:15.160
same thing benefits someone I don't know and

00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:16.819
don't like or disapprove of, then I'm against

00:18:16.819 --> 00:18:19.359
that part of it. And I think you're seeing that

00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:21.079
there aren't you yes, we are definitely seeing

00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:26.160
this there. Okay, so All these organizations

00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.200
all these movements they're in favor of denying

00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:38.200
Roosevelt a second term Actually They were notoriously

00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:42.579
Unsuccessful at this Roosevelt carries every

00:18:42.579 --> 00:18:46.130
state in the Union with the exception of Maine

00:18:46.130 --> 00:18:49.630
and Vermont. So in the Electoral College, the

00:18:49.630 --> 00:18:52.930
Republicans managed to notch up an impressive

00:18:52.930 --> 00:18:58.849
eight votes in the Electoral College. It's always,

00:18:59.150 --> 00:19:02.349
as I said previously, it is always remarkable

00:19:02.349 --> 00:19:05.869
when a Democrat carries a state like Kansas.

00:19:06.329 --> 00:19:08.349
In this case, it's doubly remarkable because

00:19:08.349 --> 00:19:11.859
that's the state that Landon was from. I was

00:19:11.859 --> 00:19:13.740
going to say, did the Republicans get manned

00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:15.059
in Vermont because their candidates were from

00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:19.299
there? No, no, no, they hadn't, you know, Frank

00:19:19.299 --> 00:19:24.000
Knox was from Illinois. Okay. And, and, and,

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.259
and Knox is, and, and Loudon and Landon is from,

00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:32.779
is from Kansas. These are historically like in

00:19:32.779 --> 00:19:37.740
the kind of Republican Party of the Civil War

00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:43.299
abolitionist states. that were rock -solid Republican,

00:19:44.819 --> 00:19:49.460
almost from a team sport attitude, like they

00:19:49.460 --> 00:19:51.900
would not countenance voting for a Democrat at

00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:55.519
this point, just from historical norms. As it

00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:59.700
turned out, what really managed to undo Roosevelt,

00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.880
at least temporarily, was Roosevelt. And this

00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.099
is going to play a part, I'm just going to say,

00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:11.569
in the development of the America First organization

00:20:11.569 --> 00:20:15.450
and attitudes towards the war and even attitudes

00:20:15.450 --> 00:20:22.289
towards the Nazis. As an act of hubris, he persisted

00:20:22.289 --> 00:20:25.569
in attempts to pack the Supreme Court long after

00:20:25.569 --> 00:20:27.390
it was clear that he had won the fight. The Supreme

00:20:27.390 --> 00:20:31.250
Court at the time was invalidating New Deal legislation,

00:20:31.970 --> 00:20:35.009
this aggravated Roosevelt. Some of this stuff

00:20:35.009 --> 00:20:39.140
wasn't really much of a loss. in the first place.

00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:41.460
There was an organization called the National

00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:48.940
Recovery Act, or NRA, and this was this unwieldy,

00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:52.759
ill -considered act that was kind of really getting

00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.259
in everyone's way in terms of recovery. It was

00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:57.920
graded staging parades, but not much of anything

00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:06.819
else. So this was invalidated by the Supreme

00:21:06.819 --> 00:21:11.180
Court. But Roosevelt just insisted that he had

00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:13.980
to win and he had to win on his terms there.

00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.980
And this heavy -handed approach cost him supporters

00:21:17.980 --> 00:21:23.140
on Capitol Hill, including many that would become

00:21:23.140 --> 00:21:27.259
enemies of him that would adopt extreme and questionable

00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:33.019
methods. A lot of people seem to think that here

00:21:33.019 --> 00:21:35.980
in these United States that somehow or the other

00:21:35.980 --> 00:21:40.119
we're immune to being subjected to outside influences.

00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.960
There are still people, and we saw this this

00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:46.980
week, the week that we're recording this, who

00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:52.700
question the assessment of the 2016 Russian electoral

00:21:52.700 --> 00:22:00.099
interference situation. And how this somehow

00:22:00.099 --> 00:22:02.759
reflects on the patriotism of the participants.

00:22:03.500 --> 00:22:06.440
You know people who would benefit from this outside

00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:08.880
influence and there's some kind of confusion

00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.339
there too that people make between Interference

00:22:12.339 --> 00:22:14.900
in the election and then actual vote manipulation

00:22:14.900 --> 00:22:17.660
by hacking into voting machines voting machines

00:22:17.660 --> 00:22:19.880
or something, right? I admit I admit the one

00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:21.599
is a subset of the other and a pretty serious

00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.059
subset of it But you can interfere in elections

00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:26.920
in a lot of ways that nothing changing votes

00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:29.900
or whatever can go in and interfere in elections

00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:33.720
and not have any impact Yes, you can propagandize

00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:36.059
and people don't listen to you or exactly. Yeah,

00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:39.500
and I mean, you know Depending on how heavy -handed

00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:44.660
your your your your efforts are So just to go

00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:49.420
back To see when we started seeing this for the

00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:53.779
first time it was 1793 when citizen Genet came

00:22:53.779 --> 00:22:57.059
over to represent the cause of the French Revolution

00:22:57.059 --> 00:23:00.779
and gave Washington an extremely hard time over

00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:05.299
this and then we also have events during the

00:23:05.299 --> 00:23:08.019
link administration where the link administration

00:23:08.019 --> 00:23:12.630
competent generally as always spent a great deal

00:23:12.630 --> 00:23:15.930
of their diplomatic efforts to prevent foreign

00:23:15.930 --> 00:23:18.410
recognition of the Confederacy by European powers.

00:23:19.049 --> 00:23:21.369
So these are examples. I mean, you know, we should

00:23:21.369 --> 00:23:24.170
be aware of this. This is part again of history

00:23:24.170 --> 00:23:26.970
that we have forgotten that this is a factor

00:23:26.970 --> 00:23:29.950
that happens. It's not like we live in this hermetically

00:23:29.950 --> 00:23:33.369
sealed environment that is impervious to any

00:23:33.369 --> 00:23:37.049
foreign influence, no matter how subtle it is.

00:23:38.470 --> 00:23:43.569
So In the 1930s, there was a very strong pro

00:23:43.569 --> 00:23:45.970
-German organization known as the German -American

00:23:45.970 --> 00:23:50.049
Bund that started out as a kind of friendship

00:23:50.049 --> 00:23:55.210
organization. Its membership was limited exclusively

00:23:55.210 --> 00:23:58.230
to people of German -American descent, and their

00:23:58.230 --> 00:24:02.829
goal was about promoting a favorable view of

00:24:02.829 --> 00:24:06.089
Nazi Germany. This is under the leadership of

00:24:06.089 --> 00:24:08.980
a gentleman by the name of Franz Kuhn. And Kuhn

00:24:08.980 --> 00:24:11.440
was an effective leader of the organization through

00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:15.920
1939. In 1939, they had a huge rally in Madison

00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:18.819
Square Garden in which George Washington is pitched

00:24:18.819 --> 00:24:23.319
as the first fascist organizational leader. My

00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:27.160
father was a teenager in the 1930s up in the

00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.799
Buffalo, Niagara Falls, New York area. He liked

00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:32.660
German food, he was interested in German culture,

00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:34.980
I guess he liked Umpah music and things. And

00:24:34.980 --> 00:24:36.980
he would go to German bunt picnics. You could

00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:39.299
go to them, they were public events, right? And

00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:41.740
you'd go there and get yourself some bratwurst

00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:44.359
and listen to some German polka music and whatever

00:24:44.359 --> 00:24:46.299
it is you like there, right? And he said it was

00:24:46.299 --> 00:24:48.460
weird to think that he would go to those things

00:24:48.460 --> 00:24:51.819
as a teenager. And all around them were swastika

00:24:51.819 --> 00:24:54.480
flags. Because that was the national flag of

00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.559
Germany. It didn't have all the evil connotation

00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:00.069
it was gonna have just a few years later. right

00:25:00.069 --> 00:25:01.950
so you would go there and well okay that's their

00:25:01.950 --> 00:25:04.450
flag and you'd be immersed in german culture

00:25:04.450 --> 00:25:06.950
right and there was nothing wrong with that right

00:25:06.950 --> 00:25:08.509
there wasn't a stigma attached oh you went to

00:25:08.509 --> 00:25:12.710
the bunt picnic it was just a picnic right and

00:25:12.710 --> 00:25:14.150
he said it was funny to think that you know five

00:25:14.150 --> 00:25:15.869
years later i was i was fighting these people

00:25:15.869 --> 00:25:17.869
and you know hated that flag and things you know

00:25:17.869 --> 00:25:23.640
or so it's German is the most claimed ancestry

00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.539
among Americans. I'm just looking here, 49 million

00:25:26.539 --> 00:25:28.480
Americans. So that works out to about 14 to 15

00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.960
% of Americans. Yeah. Claim at least some German

00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:36.019
ancestry. So that's a big thing in American life,

00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.400
actually. And you can understand that context.

00:25:39.460 --> 00:25:41.740
If you haven't had World War II yet, you haven't

00:25:41.740 --> 00:25:43.579
seen all the horrors of what the Nazis did yet.

00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:45.380
And you're living in an isolationist America

00:25:45.380 --> 00:25:49.420
first country at the time in many ways. You just

00:25:49.420 --> 00:25:52.720
wouldn't have the same understanding of The symbols

00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:55.559
and the Nazis things it might make you fall prey

00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:57.859
to what they say, right? Because you wouldn't

00:25:57.859 --> 00:25:59.000
have the understanding that you would have a

00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.140
few years later what they were all about definitely

00:26:02.140 --> 00:26:17.900
But in the lead -up what we're gonna see is a

00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:22.839
contest for hearts and minds in the United States

00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:29.619
and between France and Great Britain and also

00:26:29.619 --> 00:26:34.839
Germany and attempts to kind of maintain some

00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:39.839
sort of hold on popular opinion here from both

00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:44.339
of them. I'm just going to say this, that the

00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:49.029
British and French kind of had an in an advantage

00:26:49.029 --> 00:26:53.430
just because of cultural ties and hey if they're

00:26:53.430 --> 00:26:57.450
going to do a movie at during this period that's

00:26:57.450 --> 00:26:59.029
not going to be set in the United States it's

00:26:59.029 --> 00:27:00.930
probably going to be set in Britain and it's

00:27:00.930 --> 00:27:03.690
going to feature the British as being like rather

00:27:03.690 --> 00:27:07.890
nice charming people if not just a little odd

00:27:07.890 --> 00:27:11.710
there you know we saw lots of there were there

00:27:11.710 --> 00:27:14.769
were at least two movies that were made about

00:27:14.769 --> 00:27:19.089
Britain facing the Spanish Armada in ways that

00:27:19.089 --> 00:27:21.950
would later be similar to what we saw during

00:27:21.950 --> 00:27:25.069
the Battle of Britain. So there were propaganda

00:27:25.069 --> 00:27:27.509
efforts that were made that had these compelling

00:27:27.509 --> 00:27:30.569
stories. We don't really see a similar level

00:27:30.569 --> 00:27:35.329
of effort where we have Frederick the Great fending

00:27:35.329 --> 00:27:38.309
off all these Europeans trying to take over Prussia

00:27:38.309 --> 00:27:42.289
here and brave valiant Germany resisting and

00:27:42.289 --> 00:27:47.069
pursuing its state. We do see something else

00:27:47.069 --> 00:27:53.990
that happens during this period. But we kind

00:27:53.990 --> 00:27:56.750
of need to look at what the Germans are trying

00:27:56.750 --> 00:28:01.490
to do here during this period. There's a lot

00:28:01.490 --> 00:28:03.410
of books that are written now, books that were

00:28:03.410 --> 00:28:05.210
written after the war, things that were done

00:28:05.210 --> 00:28:08.069
during the war. There are even things that British

00:28:08.069 --> 00:28:12.730
intelligence generated that depict Nazi Germany's

00:28:12.730 --> 00:28:15.490
goals for the Western Hemisphere. There was a

00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:19.269
certain map that Roosevelt had that he acquired

00:28:19.269 --> 00:28:24.750
through kind of classified means. It turned out

00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:26.630
this was a forgery. We didn't know this until

00:28:26.630 --> 00:28:29.430
after World War II, but it basically showed the

00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:31.250
Germans wanting to divide up the Western Hemisphere

00:28:31.250 --> 00:28:40.250
into five distinct areas. What the Germans actually

00:28:40.250 --> 00:28:42.609
wanted, what the Nazis wanted, they didn't necessarily

00:28:42.609 --> 00:28:44.849
want to establish a fascist government in the

00:28:44.849 --> 00:28:48.190
United States and they judged that any heavy

00:28:48.190 --> 00:28:52.529
-handed efforts were going to be likely to undermine

00:28:52.529 --> 00:28:55.569
their support or their ability to affect events

00:28:55.569 --> 00:28:58.650
here. They figured it would alienate Americans

00:28:58.650 --> 00:29:03.809
and rather than win their support. So something

00:29:03.809 --> 00:29:08.160
like the Bund is rather sinister. It was a component

00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:14.400
of soft power by the Nazis but really then as

00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.779
what we'll find with other powers say like Russia's

00:29:17.779 --> 00:29:22.200
attitude towards USA to Ukraine It's to neutralize.

00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:25.759
It's to create confusion and to prevent the development

00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:30.500
of consensus and so if you support opposition

00:29:30.500 --> 00:29:33.259
movements rather than create something that's

00:29:33.150 --> 00:29:35.470
very much a part and parcel of your own political

00:29:35.470 --> 00:29:38.609
ideology, opposition movements are going to be

00:29:38.609 --> 00:29:44.230
more effective in doing so. So in the in the

00:29:44.230 --> 00:29:46.789
lead up into the outbreak of the war with Germany,

00:29:47.309 --> 00:29:49.690
this meant seeking to gain influence with members

00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:51.789
in the House of Representatives and the Senate.

00:29:52.609 --> 00:29:55.089
Yes, this is something that really happened in

00:29:55.089 --> 00:29:59.150
which members, elected members because of their

00:29:59.150 --> 00:30:01.789
hatred of Roosevelt or their hatred of being

00:30:01.789 --> 00:30:06.349
involved in another war, even anti -Semitism,

00:30:06.849 --> 00:30:12.210
is going to motivate them to support German propaganda

00:30:12.210 --> 00:30:16.430
efforts. So the person who we need to look at

00:30:16.430 --> 00:30:19.369
here, and I may make a mess of the pronunciation

00:30:19.369 --> 00:30:23.809
of his name, is a guy named George Wehrich. Do

00:30:23.809 --> 00:30:26.779
you have any thoughts on the pronunciation? Well,

00:30:26.779 --> 00:30:29.579
and if it was pronounced in German, yeah, he'd

00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:32.460
be Georg Fierach is what he'd be in German here

00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:34.660
Rick But if it's if he's an American, he'd probably

00:30:34.660 --> 00:30:36.420
just say George Vera. All right. Well, let's

00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:39.579
go. Yeah, that's it. Yeah Yeah, all right. So

00:30:39.579 --> 00:30:42.299
he is a supporter an early supporter of the of

00:30:42.299 --> 00:30:46.559
Hitler Shortly after Hitler's rise to power He

00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.099
even initially compares Hitler to FDR to kind

00:30:49.099 --> 00:30:53.329
of make make Hitler seem somewhat more appealing,

00:30:53.970 --> 00:30:57.930
and he kind of downplayed this idea of anti -Semitism

00:30:57.930 --> 00:31:01.809
in the Nazis to get U .S. support here. Don't

00:31:01.809 --> 00:31:04.390
pay any attention to Hitler's policy towards

00:31:04.390 --> 00:31:07.309
the Jews. You Jews can support Hitler as well

00:31:07.309 --> 00:31:10.309
here. You know, that was part of his early messaging

00:31:10.309 --> 00:31:16.309
attempts here. So in 1940, Derek launched a plot

00:31:16.309 --> 00:31:21.589
in which he paid members of Congress So he's

00:31:21.589 --> 00:31:24.049
getting money from the German Embassy, that's

00:31:24.049 --> 00:31:26.970
where he's paying for them, to take propaganda

00:31:26.970 --> 00:31:29.329
from the Hitler government, which would get delivered

00:31:29.329 --> 00:31:33.710
to their offices on Capitol Hill, and deliver

00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:36.569
it in the form of speeches in Congress, so they

00:31:36.569 --> 00:31:40.450
would make it into the congressional record there.

00:31:41.789 --> 00:31:45.230
Congress members then as now have franking privileges,

00:31:46.309 --> 00:31:51.200
and he would get them to mail out hundreds thousands

00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:54.980
if not millions of reprints of Nazi propaganda

00:31:54.980 --> 00:31:57.700
that the Germans were providing them and which

00:31:57.700 --> 00:32:01.640
would arrive on Capitol Hill for their frank.

00:32:02.380 --> 00:32:05.359
This is sort of like a troll farm which is being

00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:10.079
run by Congress at US expense to promulgate the

00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:13.019
wishes of Nazi Germany. No one on the British

00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:15.119
side would ever have dreamed of doing anything

00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:21.589
like this. but this is sort of like a way to

00:32:21.589 --> 00:32:27.930
use elected officials to gain influence. So the

00:32:27.930 --> 00:32:30.130
sorts of people that were involved in this, and

00:32:30.130 --> 00:32:32.769
this was being run out of what is now the Cannon

00:32:32.769 --> 00:32:38.289
Building, was the Senator Ernest Lundin of Minnesota,

00:32:39.130 --> 00:32:44.609
Burton Wheeler of Montana, and Jacob Thorkinson

00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:49.160
also of Montana. Now it's probably something

00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:52.940
that we shouldn't underscore here. These guys

00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:54.980
are all in the Midwest and this is where we're

00:32:54.980 --> 00:32:57.839
going to see the isolationist movement kind of

00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:01.259
take off here. Another person who was involved

00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:05.660
in this is Congressman Hamilton Fish. Hamilton

00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:08.480
Fish is FDR's own congressman and they hated

00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.799
each other and unlike these other guys who are

00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:15.859
kind of You know, he, Hamilton Fish lives in

00:33:15.859 --> 00:33:19.660
Dutchess County in New York. His grandfather,

00:33:19.660 --> 00:33:23.819
I believe, was Grant's Secretary of State. And

00:33:23.819 --> 00:33:27.940
you may well imagine how close he was to say,

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.200
not just the Republican party, but the Federalist

00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:35.940
party with a name like Hamilton. Roosevelt, by

00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:38.700
the way, was a huge proponent of Jefferson at

00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:41.380
the time. So something else to keep in mind here.

00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:46.539
So. Here we have fifth column activity that members

00:33:46.539 --> 00:33:51.640
of Congress engaged in as a result of a combination

00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:55.660
of motives. This is definitely hatred of Roosevelt

00:33:55.660 --> 00:34:01.480
is driving both Wheeler and Fisch to support

00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:06.819
the Nazis at the expense of Roosevelt's agenda

00:34:06.819 --> 00:34:10.579
for helping the Allies here. I have a question.

00:34:10.780 --> 00:34:15.610
Yes. So on the one hand, Virek or Fiorek, he

00:34:15.610 --> 00:34:19.650
is comparing Hitler to FDR, I assume favorably.

00:34:20.329 --> 00:34:24.030
Initially. Initially. Yes. But over time that

00:34:24.030 --> 00:34:27.469
changes. So over time that changes. Yes. Because

00:34:27.469 --> 00:34:30.469
see that it's contradictory to compare the two

00:34:30.469 --> 00:34:35.730
favorably and then to try to, and then to hate.

00:34:35.909 --> 00:34:38.329
Like most probably - Hate FDR because of his

00:34:38.329 --> 00:34:41.599
- Dissimilarity from it. I mean well opposition

00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:44.639
because as we're getting closer as we're getting

00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:48.920
closer to World War two breaking out it is clear

00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:53.480
from FDR's perspective that there is a looming

00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:58.780
crisis and That as we get closer and closer to

00:34:58.780 --> 00:35:03.840
it FDR Who I think has really a really good for

00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:07.159
he is not perfect, but he has really good strategic

00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:12.469
insights into geopolitics and also military affairs.

00:35:13.309 --> 00:35:16.690
Very good instincts, and he knows there is no

00:35:16.690 --> 00:35:19.690
way the U .S. is going to be able to avoid the

00:35:19.690 --> 00:35:24.389
coming conflict. Now, this is not a popular,

00:35:24.690 --> 00:35:26.630
you know, if FDR decided to get up and level

00:35:26.630 --> 00:35:30.010
with people, you know, FDR gets a lot of grief

00:35:30.010 --> 00:35:35.190
for his deception, you know, because he is preparing

00:35:35.190 --> 00:35:38.809
for a war that he thinks the U .S. cannot avoid.

00:35:39.489 --> 00:35:42.650
It cannot be avoided. It is a fact of life. And

00:35:42.650 --> 00:35:44.789
here's the thing, even if we could avoid it,

00:35:44.889 --> 00:35:47.590
if we don't prepare for it then, and it does

00:35:47.590 --> 00:35:50.329
happen, you're in a worse state. So you can't

00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:52.389
just stick your head in the ground. His notion

00:35:52.389 --> 00:35:56.869
is we have to be prepared for this. And this

00:35:56.869 --> 00:36:01.230
involves him doing a lot of, making a lot of

00:36:01.230 --> 00:36:03.369
statements which are not exactly leveling with

00:36:03.369 --> 00:36:09.829
the American public, you know. Hey, if this means

00:36:09.829 --> 00:36:13.389
that the American the American Republic survives

00:36:13.389 --> 00:36:17.889
as a result of this as he generally kind of leads

00:36:17.889 --> 00:36:20.889
people to come to this conclusion on their own

00:36:20.889 --> 00:36:23.789
as opposed to like telling them this is how things

00:36:23.789 --> 00:36:26.010
are and you better believe it because I'm your

00:36:26.010 --> 00:36:30.949
president then that shows just his understanding

00:36:30.949 --> 00:36:33.849
of politics and the realities of politics at

00:36:33.849 --> 00:36:40.210
the time so as he becomes convinced about the

00:36:40.210 --> 00:36:43.909
unavoidability of World War II, and there's a

00:36:43.909 --> 00:36:47.250
lot of things that are changing in terms of attitudes

00:36:47.250 --> 00:36:52.190
to include the American public's attitudes towards

00:36:52.190 --> 00:36:56.489
U .S. involvement in World War II and also aid

00:36:56.489 --> 00:37:02.889
to Britain. Because again, you've got the whole

00:37:02.889 --> 00:37:08.369
idea to go back to the the effect that even selling

00:37:08.369 --> 00:37:11.730
weapons is a is a sort of trigger to get you

00:37:11.730 --> 00:37:14.989
involved in a conflict. We do this again just

00:37:14.989 --> 00:37:19.750
like World War I and we're going to to to be

00:37:19.750 --> 00:37:23.389
forced to get involved in the war just because

00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:27.250
the bankers want us to. And FDR is like saying

00:37:27.250 --> 00:37:29.489
well guess what kids we're going to like raise

00:37:29.489 --> 00:37:31.349
taxes so there's not going to be any excessive

00:37:31.349 --> 00:37:35.840
profits so so I believe that that is actually

00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:38.099
him being influenced by the conclusion of the

00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:42.380
nigh Commission and trying to like avoid people

00:37:42.380 --> 00:37:44.480
thinking about him as like saying I'm going to

00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:48.079
facilitate these profit the profits that we do

00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:53.420
have That are going to be made and These guys

00:37:53.420 --> 00:37:54.679
are going to be allowed to keep them and that

00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:57.219
is why your sons are going to be Forced to go

00:37:57.219 --> 00:38:00.300
into into the war so that you can support banking

00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:06.980
interest so Again, he's perceiving the conflict

00:38:06.980 --> 00:38:12.480
as being unavoidable. And so this meant helping

00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:18.139
out with measures like Britain and France and

00:38:18.139 --> 00:38:22.320
speeding up rearmament measures. And this was

00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:27.059
the only approach he could imagine. He totally

00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:31.099
deceived America, but this is good because he

00:38:31.099 --> 00:38:35.500
understood that if he did, he would not be leading,

00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:38.480
he would be walking without anyone to follow

00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:43.679
him. And I'll argue that even though this is

00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:47.619
not necessarily praiseworthy tactics, it did

00:38:47.619 --> 00:38:50.440
do a great deal to ensure that the U .S. would

00:38:50.440 --> 00:39:05.250
survive conflict with the Axis nations. A lot

00:39:05.250 --> 00:39:07.469
of people think that our rearmament didn't start

00:39:07.469 --> 00:39:10.469
until Pearl Harbor. And that's not true. No,

00:39:10.469 --> 00:39:12.510
it's not. Our rearmament, and this is true around

00:39:12.510 --> 00:39:14.429
the world too, British rearmament, et cetera,

00:39:15.110 --> 00:39:18.750
really started around 1937. Yeah. By then, the

00:39:18.750 --> 00:39:20.969
interwar treaties and arms control agreements

00:39:20.969 --> 00:39:23.889
all pretty much fallen apart. You could see that

00:39:23.889 --> 00:39:26.170
Germany and Japan and Italy were rising and all

00:39:26.170 --> 00:39:27.610
that, right? You could see that they were threats

00:39:27.610 --> 00:39:29.309
to international stability and so on and so forth.

00:39:30.230 --> 00:39:32.630
At least in Britain, United States, I think probably

00:39:32.630 --> 00:39:34.170
the same is true in France. I'd have to look

00:39:34.170 --> 00:39:38.570
that up. But by 1937, the rearmament had started.

00:39:38.849 --> 00:39:40.909
And a lot of what we fought the first half of

00:39:40.909 --> 00:39:44.010
World War II with were things designed or constructed

00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:49.309
during the late 30s. And so he had, in the United

00:39:49.309 --> 00:39:52.090
States, he had quite a bit of success in getting

00:39:52.090 --> 00:39:54.250
that underway. Because if that had not happened,

00:39:54.269 --> 00:39:56.110
we really would have been in trouble. Definitely.

00:39:56.110 --> 00:40:00.170
In 1941, 42. Definitely, and during this period

00:40:00.170 --> 00:40:03.610
they're also, he is talking to the service chiefs

00:40:03.610 --> 00:40:05.650
because there was no joint chiefs at the time.

00:40:06.230 --> 00:40:07.789
This would be something that would get, that

00:40:07.789 --> 00:40:13.710
would be created as a necessity of World War

00:40:13.710 --> 00:40:16.690
II. He would basically call the service chiefs

00:40:16.690 --> 00:40:18.849
together and they would try to assess priorities

00:40:18.849 --> 00:40:22.210
as to what could be built and what was necessarily

00:40:22.210 --> 00:40:26.510
needed to be built. you know FDR was very much

00:40:26.510 --> 00:40:31.590
a proponent of aviation and the sea and he was

00:40:31.590 --> 00:40:37.849
constantly being being urged on by Marshall to

00:40:37.849 --> 00:40:42.210
build more not to not to disregard ground forces

00:40:42.210 --> 00:40:45.070
as well so there's very much a dialogue that's

00:40:45.070 --> 00:40:48.929
going on at the top in terms of how things would

00:40:48.929 --> 00:40:56.110
develop going up from 1937 to 1940. So if the

00:40:56.110 --> 00:41:00.789
Nazis hoped to find in the Republican Party an

00:41:00.789 --> 00:41:03.389
opponent for Roosevelt's policy of aiding the

00:41:03.389 --> 00:41:06.809
Allies, they were very much mistaken. I mean,

00:41:06.889 --> 00:41:09.730
the Republican Party was in a mess. You know,

00:41:09.730 --> 00:41:12.369
you get eight electoral votes. What the hell

00:41:12.369 --> 00:41:15.150
do you do to follow up? There is a great deal

00:41:15.150 --> 00:41:20.230
of anger about and hatred. towards Roosevelt

00:41:20.230 --> 00:41:23.030
and so they are looking for something that will

00:41:23.030 --> 00:41:27.869
stick. Now there was an opposition to World War

00:41:27.869 --> 00:41:31.409
II, an isolationist candidate, Robert Taft, who

00:41:31.409 --> 00:41:34.929
was a contender in 1940. There was also Thomas

00:41:34.929 --> 00:41:40.070
Dewey, who was the governor of New York and had

00:41:40.070 --> 00:41:44.750
been kind of famous for being a rackets buster.

00:41:45.869 --> 00:41:49.840
We're going to encounter They will have political

00:41:49.840 --> 00:41:52.980
careers beyond 1940, but the guy who took off

00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:58.300
was Wendell Willkie. Willkie had no electoral

00:41:58.300 --> 00:42:01.780
office before. He was a corporate lawyer. He

00:42:01.780 --> 00:42:06.059
started out as a Democrat. His principal opposition

00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:09.300
to the New Deal was over rural electrification

00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:13.190
because he represented power interest. and what

00:42:13.190 --> 00:42:15.889
rural electrification meant is that here's somebody

00:42:15.889 --> 00:42:18.949
competing with you and selling things not for

00:42:18.949 --> 00:42:26.030
a profit but for a lower cost, and he was adamantly

00:42:26.030 --> 00:42:30.469
opposed to this. However, when it came to aid

00:42:30.469 --> 00:42:32.969
to Britain, he and Roosevelt were remarkably

00:42:32.969 --> 00:42:36.949
on the same sheet of music there. I have upstairs

00:42:36.949 --> 00:42:40.409
in my house, I have like a whole collection of

00:42:40.409 --> 00:42:44.519
stuff from 1940. They're not talking about not

00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:46.440
getting involved in the war. There's all sorts

00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:49.659
of things in the political memorabilia of the

00:42:49.659 --> 00:42:51.940
time that basically talks about a lot of stuff,

00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:54.739
a lot of anti -New Deal stuff, a lot of stuff

00:42:54.739 --> 00:42:57.920
about no Roosevelt dynasty, no third term, but

00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.800
nobody's really coming out against aid to Britain

00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:03.300
at the national level. There is concern that

00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:06.940
Roosevelt is trying to surreptitiously get the

00:43:06.940 --> 00:43:10.039
United States into war. and occasionally Wilkie

00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:14.219
would get carried away by his political rhetoric,

00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:19.780
but this was not something that was happening.

00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.260
I mean, this is an interesting election in that

00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:26.599
the critical aspect of this election, war or

00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:30.260
peace, extent of involvement, this is not what

00:43:30.260 --> 00:43:33.400
is being discussed because the issues of war

00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:36.099
and peace are things that are basically being,

00:43:36.260 --> 00:43:39.639
that there's consensus on. exact opposite of

00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:43.159
what the Nazis wanted. You know, it's about New

00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:46.320
Deal programs, it's about, you know, even though

00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.340
the Republicans are mounting a fairly slick campaign

00:43:49.340 --> 00:43:54.719
and Roosevelt actually had the, he did not know

00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:57.260
for sure that he was going to win in this election

00:43:57.260 --> 00:43:59.780
because this is, he's violating the whole third

00:43:59.780 --> 00:44:08.789
term precedent and so forth. So, Roosevelt actually

00:44:08.789 --> 00:44:12.610
on election night He had his study in at Hyde

00:44:12.610 --> 00:44:14.989
Park and there was a huge group of supporters

00:44:14.989 --> 00:44:17.010
and followers and officials from the Democratic

00:44:17.010 --> 00:44:20.409
Party and for the first couple of hours he locked

00:44:20.409 --> 00:44:23.590
himself in the in his office because he in his

00:44:23.590 --> 00:44:25.909
study because he did not want to actually Engage

00:44:25.909 --> 00:44:27.570
with people because he didn't know what was gonna

00:44:27.570 --> 00:44:31.550
happen and he needed to prepare himself And then

00:44:31.550 --> 00:44:32.949
it's interesting in the context you're talking

00:44:32.949 --> 00:44:34.530
about to right where they weren't really arguing

00:44:34.530 --> 00:44:39.079
about supporting Britain It wasn't, you mentioned

00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:43.219
material aid to Britain. Yes. But another aspect

00:44:43.219 --> 00:44:45.519
of it too, and this was of aid to Britain, was

00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.599
the neutrality patrol. Yeah. And a lot of people

00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:51.039
have forgotten about this, but the United States,

00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:54.360
arguably illegally under international law, arguably,

00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.539
said that we're neutral in the war, but we won't

00:44:58.539 --> 00:45:01.460
allow combatant forces to operate within certain

00:45:01.460 --> 00:45:03.230
distances of the Western Hemisphere. Kind of

00:45:03.230 --> 00:45:05.469
a Monroe Doctrine -y kind of idea, right? Yeah,

00:45:05.710 --> 00:45:08.070
hemispheric security. Security, right? So we

00:45:08.070 --> 00:45:11.050
said, we will go out there and we will, you know,

00:45:11.389 --> 00:45:13.730
if an enemy warship comes within these areas

00:45:13.730 --> 00:45:16.550
on a belligerent mission, we'll attack it to

00:45:16.550 --> 00:45:19.110
defend our hemisphere, okay? Even though we're

00:45:19.110 --> 00:45:22.179
not at war with these countries. Now, officially

00:45:22.179 --> 00:45:24.460
that banned the British from being there as well,

00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:26.380
and the French were still in the war. That had

00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:27.900
banned them from being in the hemisphere too,

00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:29.820
as well as the Germans. But it was really all

00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:32.599
about keeping the U -boats away, and German service

00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:34.980
raiders away, right? That's really what it was

00:45:34.980 --> 00:45:38.239
about. Everybody kind of knew that. And we started

00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:41.059
that on the first day of the war. Yeah. And we

00:45:41.059 --> 00:45:44.480
had kept expanding it. So I think by sometime

00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:46.960
in, was it 1940 or 41, we had expanded all the

00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:50.250
way pretty much to Iceland. Yeah. Right? and

00:45:50.250 --> 00:45:52.030
the Germans couldn't really do very much about

00:45:52.030 --> 00:45:53.349
it and weren't really trying to get involved

00:45:53.349 --> 00:45:56.309
in a fight with us in 1941 until the very end

00:45:56.309 --> 00:45:59.309
of the war, of the year. So they kind of let

00:45:59.309 --> 00:46:02.309
it go, they sort of protested it, you know, but

00:46:02.309 --> 00:46:05.590
we were getting very aggressive out at sea. Well,

00:46:06.050 --> 00:46:07.929
it's interesting you should bring this up because

00:46:07.929 --> 00:46:12.349
Roosevelt got, first of all, people, Roosevelt

00:46:12.349 --> 00:46:15.949
was a master of nuance when he was dealing with

00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:19.980
the public, and so what Roosevelt insisted on

00:46:19.980 --> 00:46:23.900
calling this was a patrol, and Roosevelt would

00:46:23.900 --> 00:46:27.519
say that the patrol area would vary depending

00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:31.920
on needs. What does this mean? It means whatever

00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:35.539
you want it to mean, and people would say, is

00:46:35.539 --> 00:46:39.599
this, are we doing convoying? Is this a convoy?

00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:43.179
Are we going to take part in convoys with the

00:46:43.179 --> 00:46:45.940
allies there? Roosevelt would say no, we're not

00:46:45.940 --> 00:46:48.960
doing convoying, we're doing a patrol, which

00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:51.739
is not the same as a convoy. And Roosevelt, and

00:46:51.739 --> 00:46:54.079
this was kind of funny, he would say Do you know

00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:57.079
what a horse is? Do you know what a cow is? And

00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:59.619
the reporter would say, yes. And he'd say, well,

00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:03.000
patrol is like a horse and a convoy is like a

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.139
cow. And if you can understand that there's a

00:47:05.139 --> 00:47:07.380
difference between a horse and a cow, you understand

00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:13.739
the difference between a patrol and escorting

00:47:13.739 --> 00:47:17.860
duties as such. And none of this says anything.

00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:20.400
None of this says anything, but somehow or the

00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:23.760
other, this is reassuring to people. I'm not

00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:27.519
trying to get you into a war, but we are doing

00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:31.340
things to protect our hemisphere. And a cow is

00:47:31.340 --> 00:47:33.960
a cow and a horse is a horse. And what's kind

00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.500
of remarkable, too, is just looking over the

00:47:35.500 --> 00:47:38.300
history very briefly. At the beginning of 41,

00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:40.599
Roosevelt had secretly organized a protection

00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:43.500
of shipping task force. Guess what it did? It

00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:45.840
convoyed things. Yes. Right? Which is what he's

00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:50.460
saying we're not doing. And by September? Not

00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:52.159
only that but we're actually starting to fight

00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:56.079
having exchanges of weaponry torpedoes and gunfire

00:47:56.079 --> 00:48:01.179
such with u -boats Which river destroyers were

00:48:01.179 --> 00:48:03.099
torpedoed one of them the Rubin James was actually

00:48:03.099 --> 00:48:05.860
sunken. Yes before before we entered the war

00:48:05.860 --> 00:48:07.940
Yes, so there was almost an undeclared war Maybe

00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:09.739
it really was an undeclared war going on between

00:48:09.739 --> 00:48:11.920
us and at least the u -boats and the in the Atlantic

00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:16.809
in 1941 and yet He's still able to pull this

00:48:16.809 --> 00:48:18.590
off and say I'm just protecting the hemisphere.

00:48:18.590 --> 00:48:21.230
I am protecting the hemisphere. I'm doing patrols

00:48:21.230 --> 00:48:25.269
I'm not doing convoys and and and basically when

00:48:25.269 --> 00:48:27.989
reporters are asking he says I am just doing

00:48:27.989 --> 00:48:32.389
patrols and And I mean this is this gets us in

00:48:32.389 --> 00:48:34.389
almost to Alice in Wonderland words mean what

00:48:34.389 --> 00:48:38.530
I think they mean and and Roosevelt is just you

00:48:38.530 --> 00:48:44.070
know, he is he is very good at making it at reassuring

00:48:44.190 --> 00:48:46.809
I'm not trying to get you into a war. He knows

00:48:46.809 --> 00:48:49.510
that there are certain people that are that cannot

00:48:49.510 --> 00:48:52.250
be convinced but he knows that he can also kind

00:48:52.250 --> 00:48:54.670
of change opinions here which he is very successful

00:48:54.670 --> 00:48:59.590
in doing up to the war. And so with the election

00:48:59.590 --> 00:49:04.190
this issue of Roosevelt is trying to get us into

00:49:04.190 --> 00:49:09.030
a foreign war and Roosevelt said I am not going

00:49:09.030 --> 00:49:14.000
to get us into a foreign war unless in case of

00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:21.840
attack. So if a foreign military attacks the

00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:25.599
U .S., then it's no longer a foreign war. At

00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:28.420
least that's how the reasoning went at the time.

00:49:28.460 --> 00:49:30.639
That was not something that was put out, but

00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:34.599
it was like this phrase, this dependent clause,

00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:38.119
unless in case of attack was something that he

00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:42.400
would use to qualify his statements. about peace

00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:45.380
and war here. So he kind of managed to to to

00:49:45.380 --> 00:49:47.260
pull in America first on the America first people.

00:49:47.739 --> 00:49:50.480
He you know he kind of managed to recast fighting

00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:53.179
U -boats as far away as Iceland as defending

00:49:53.179 --> 00:49:55.619
the hemisphere the hemisphere and thereby defending

00:49:55.619 --> 00:49:58.480
America. And really, he's doing that to put America

00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:01.380
first. He could kind of make an argument that

00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:03.579
way and undermine the America firsters. Well,

00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:06.340
we haven't quite gotten to the America firsters,

00:50:06.380 --> 00:50:07.960
where we can say that. No, no, but I'm just saying

00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:10.440
that it sounds to me like he was heading them

00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:13.139
off at the pass. Well, this was a statement.

00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:18.519
Lindbergh is out on his own, kind of like, with

00:50:18.519 --> 00:50:21.940
a roving commission, so to speak, to kind of

00:50:21.940 --> 00:50:26.340
denounce, beginning in 1939, any sort of like

00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:29.920
foreign wars. Lindbergh goes in for an isolationist

00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:34.219
position immediately. There is no organization

00:50:34.219 --> 00:50:41.199
to support isolationism until September 1940

00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:46.059
when America first is formed in the midst of

00:50:46.059 --> 00:50:52.440
the election. That's it for this episode of the

00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:55.269
United States of Amnesia. Thank you for listening.

00:50:55.989 --> 00:50:58.030
We hope you learned something, and we hope you

00:50:58.030 --> 00:51:00.190
discovered new ways of looking at things you

00:51:00.190 --> 00:51:03.289
had already heard or thought about, or perhaps

00:51:03.289 --> 00:51:06.329
hadn't heard about. If you enjoyed it, that's

00:51:06.329 --> 00:51:10.369
great. If we made you mad, that's okay too. Either

00:51:10.369 --> 00:51:15.269
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00:51:15.269 --> 00:51:18.429
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00:51:18.429 --> 00:51:20.650
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00:51:20.789 --> 00:51:23.860
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00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:26.619
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00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.280
and myself. Till next time.