Episode 106: America First - Part 6 (Conclusion)

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.139
Okay, so welcome back. Where we are right now

00:00:05.139 --> 00:00:09.960
is 1940, and what we're about to see is the coming

00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:13.720
together of all of these opposition elements

00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:18.059
into one organization, the latest organization

00:00:18.059 --> 00:00:21.179
that is going to have the name America First.

00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:27.000
Welcome to the United States of Amnesia. You

00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:30.750
found us. Thank you. We are the podcast that

00:00:30.750 --> 00:00:35.490
reminds us of what we have forgotten. It is often

00:00:35.490 --> 00:00:39.270
said that history repeats itself. Mark Twain

00:00:39.270 --> 00:00:42.250
allegedly said that history doesn't repeat itself,

00:00:42.509 --> 00:00:46.250
but it rhymes. Ecclesiastes probably said it

00:00:46.250 --> 00:00:50.289
best in chapter 1 verse 9, quote, everything

00:00:50.289 --> 00:00:54.310
that has been will be again. Everything that

00:00:54.310 --> 00:00:57.929
has been done will be done again. There is nothing

00:00:57.929 --> 00:01:02.929
new under the sun." But over time, many topics

00:01:02.929 --> 00:01:06.810
have become clouded by biases and oversimplifications,

00:01:07.370 --> 00:01:11.450
or have become mythologized and now are misunderstood.

00:01:12.590 --> 00:01:15.489
Misunderstanding means learning the wrong lessons

00:01:15.489 --> 00:01:18.849
from history, perhaps, or even learning nothing

00:01:18.849 --> 00:01:21.609
at all. And that can leave us poorly prepared

00:01:21.609 --> 00:01:27.099
for history's next rhyme. Your hosts are Marshall

00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:30.659
Newman, Mike Mendenhall, and myself, Blake Henke.

00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.560
In this podcast, we will cover topics of history,

00:01:35.079 --> 00:01:38.120
politics, and religion, and how they interact,

00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.700
and also how they relate to modern -day events

00:01:41.700 --> 00:01:44.620
and themes. We will try to cut through the biases

00:01:44.620 --> 00:01:47.840
over simplifications and myths, to learn better

00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:50.959
lessons from the past, and to see what they can

00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:53.500
tell us about the present, and maybe even the

00:01:53.500 --> 00:02:07.010
future. This is episode 6 of our America First

00:02:07.010 --> 00:02:10.650
series and this episode will conclude the America

00:02:10.650 --> 00:02:14.610
First series. We will begin in 1940 and go all

00:02:14.610 --> 00:02:17.550
the way through to the dissolution of the America

00:02:17.550 --> 00:02:21.490
First committee in December of 1941 after Pearl

00:02:21.490 --> 00:02:25.330
Harbor and after fascist Italy and Germany both

00:02:25.330 --> 00:02:28.569
declare war on the United States. We will offer

00:02:28.569 --> 00:02:31.449
some concluding thoughts about America First

00:02:31.449 --> 00:02:35.189
ideology, how it has changed and evolved over

00:02:35.189 --> 00:02:40.150
time, and how it was pretty much always lurking

00:02:40.150 --> 00:02:43.030
there beneath the surface, even when it wasn't

00:02:43.030 --> 00:02:47.689
a major slogan. We will also look at some incarnations

00:02:47.689 --> 00:02:50.490
of America First ideology that have been, that

00:02:50.490 --> 00:02:59.699
have popped up very recently. This next incarnation

00:02:59.699 --> 00:03:02.780
of America First was initially the brainchild

00:03:02.780 --> 00:03:06.659
of Chicago -born Douglas Stewart, Jr., a member

00:03:06.659 --> 00:03:09.620
of the Yale Law School, who's also heir to the

00:03:09.620 --> 00:03:13.460
Quaker Oats Company. That's right, hot cereal

00:03:13.460 --> 00:03:18.500
was a strong motivator for isolationism back

00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:21.439
then. The organization was chaired by Robert

00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:24.180
Wood, chairman of Sears Roebuck, also based out

00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:27.650
of Chicago. And its highest profile member was

00:03:27.650 --> 00:03:32.229
Henry Ford, who was simultaneously a notorious

00:03:32.229 --> 00:03:36.969
anti -Semite and peace advocate. Many of Ford's

00:03:36.969 --> 00:03:39.330
ideas about Jews were taken up and endorsed by

00:03:39.330 --> 00:03:43.689
Hitler. Ford's membership in America First is

00:03:43.689 --> 00:03:46.569
going to have a negative impact on the scope

00:03:46.569 --> 00:03:50.430
and scale of its popularity with other people.

00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:54.620
In the spring of 1940, four Yale law students,

00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:58.340
to include Douglas Stewart, Gerald Ford, that's

00:03:58.340 --> 00:04:01.819
right, the U .S. president, Potter Stewart, the

00:04:01.819 --> 00:04:04.379
Supreme Court justice, and Kingman Brewster,

00:04:04.419 --> 00:04:08.699
who later became a diplomat, set up a non -intervention

00:04:08.699 --> 00:04:11.919
organization whose operations led Stewart to

00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:14.659
drop out of law school and devote himself to

00:04:14.659 --> 00:04:17.720
political work. Stewart was very well connected,

00:04:17.779 --> 00:04:21.500
as one might expect. and he managed to get a

00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:23.120
great deal of interest from various corporate

00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:27.100
and political figures. Chicago, in the Midwest,

00:04:27.740 --> 00:04:30.060
was the capital of isolationism, and it would

00:04:30.060 --> 00:04:34.240
be up until Pearl Harbor. And it was seen to

00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:37.519
be in sharp contrast the attitudes towards intervention

00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:40.319
with eastern cities such as New York City and

00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.360
Washington, D .C. And my source for this is no

00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:45.920
less than the diaries of Charles Lindbergh, who

00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:50.149
noted the difference when he went to one. meeting

00:04:50.149 --> 00:04:54.370
of America First. Unlike peace organizations

00:04:54.370 --> 00:04:57.009
that came about during the Vietnam War, America

00:04:57.009 --> 00:05:00.009
First is very much a product of the corporate

00:05:00.009 --> 00:05:06.269
culture of the time here, and it included diverse

00:05:06.269 --> 00:05:10.149
elements such as Democrats, Republicans, Progressives,

00:05:11.329 --> 00:05:16.160
Liberals, Conservatives, Socialists. radicals,

00:05:16.220 --> 00:05:20.740
and even communists, and especially dyed -in

00:05:20.740 --> 00:05:23.939
-the -wool FDR haters. How are the communists

00:05:23.939 --> 00:05:26.660
related to the America First? Well, it would

00:05:26.660 --> 00:05:30.699
seem unusual to have communists part of any sort

00:05:30.699 --> 00:05:33.420
of like organization that's going to be supporting

00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:36.220
the goals of Hitler, but at the time, this is

00:05:36.220 --> 00:05:41.079
the time of the Soviet, Russian, the German and

00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:44.160
Soviet non -aggression pact or the Molotov -Ribbentrop

00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:48.819
pact. So the Soviets and the Germans are actually

00:05:48.819 --> 00:05:51.459
cooperating with each other. They've divided

00:05:51.459 --> 00:05:54.279
up Poland. They've divided up Europe. So you're

00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:57.959
seeing at the time that this is happening, Soviet

00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:01.319
Union under Stalin is being grouped in with Hitler

00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:06.180
and Mussolini and also the Japanese to a certain

00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:09.160
degree. They're referred to collectively as the

00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.160
dictators, as though there's sort of like this

00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.600
dictator mentality that's driving everything

00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.860
over in Europe. You see this in publications

00:06:19.860 --> 00:06:22.399
such as Life magazine at the time, they'll refer

00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:25.779
to the dictators. Stalin is going around taking

00:06:25.779 --> 00:06:30.970
the Baltic states, he's taking He's actually

00:06:30.970 --> 00:06:33.430
taking part of Poland as part of the agreement

00:06:33.430 --> 00:06:36.689
while Germany is moving elsewhere, moving in

00:06:36.689 --> 00:06:38.970
Western Europe and taking the low countries,

00:06:39.029 --> 00:06:45.149
France, going after Denmark and Norway. So the

00:06:45.149 --> 00:06:47.470
communists are taking their orders essentially

00:06:47.470 --> 00:06:52.209
from Moscow and they are cooperating with an

00:06:52.209 --> 00:06:56.689
organization like America First because of this

00:06:58.619 --> 00:07:02.259
alliance between Hitler and Stalin. So that's

00:07:02.259 --> 00:07:04.459
why they're involved in this and that's why you're

00:07:04.459 --> 00:07:09.779
seeing certain elements that are making up this

00:07:09.779 --> 00:07:14.079
initial composition of America First. This will

00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:21.660
change. In Chicago, a lot of the people that

00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:27.759
are funding It's Chicago business leaders and

00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.379
figures from the Republican Party who are funding

00:07:30.379 --> 00:07:32.819
membership drives throughout the United States.

00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.339
At the peak, the America First Committee numbered

00:07:36.339 --> 00:07:40.920
800 to 850 ,000 members, making it one of the

00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:43.740
largest anti -war organizations in the history

00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:47.779
of the United States. It had a credible presence

00:07:47.779 --> 00:07:51.819
in every single area of the Union except for

00:07:51.819 --> 00:07:54.930
the South. where military traditions and ancestral

00:07:54.930 --> 00:07:57.949
ties to Great Britain were strong, and there

00:07:57.949 --> 00:08:04.269
was no need to try to foist a certain more positive

00:08:04.269 --> 00:08:07.569
attitude towards the British, as we saw elsewhere.

00:08:08.990 --> 00:08:11.509
America First officially had four guiding principles,

00:08:12.189 --> 00:08:16.089
and these are interesting to look at, and I think

00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:20.480
we can discuss them to some degree. So, their

00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.519
first principle was that the United States must

00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:25.420
have an impregnable defense for America. This

00:08:25.420 --> 00:08:28.240
was their stated goal, an impregnable defense.

00:08:29.339 --> 00:08:32.480
No foreign power can successfully attack a prepared

00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:36.600
America. That was their second principle. American

00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:39.159
democracy can only be preserved by keeping out

00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:42.799
of the war in Europe. An age of the Allies only

00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:45.740
weakens national defense and threatens to involve

00:08:45.740 --> 00:08:50.049
America in war. These ambitions reflected the

00:08:50.049 --> 00:08:53.950
previous uses of the term America First. America

00:08:53.950 --> 00:08:56.909
was culturally and morally superior to the Europeans

00:08:56.909 --> 00:09:00.269
as reflected in the latest bloodletting that

00:09:00.269 --> 00:09:04.830
was World War II. People would talk about when

00:09:04.830 --> 00:09:07.950
they were giving speeches on isolationism and

00:09:07.950 --> 00:09:10.789
they needed to stay out of the war that many

00:09:10.789 --> 00:09:13.529
people's ancestors had come to America to avoid

00:09:13.529 --> 00:09:18.139
the very sort of conflicts that World War II

00:09:18.139 --> 00:09:20.960
was only the latest example of over in Europe,

00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.820
and that for America to become involved in these,

00:09:25.100 --> 00:09:28.299
this would run counter to the ambitions of these

00:09:28.299 --> 00:09:34.500
earlier American settlers here. The experience

00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:37.220
of World War II, World War I rather, had taught

00:09:37.220 --> 00:09:40.379
a generation of Americans that contact with European

00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:44.220
conflicts was always costly and never beneficial

00:09:44.220 --> 00:09:47.450
to Americans as a whole. And particularly, this

00:09:47.450 --> 00:09:50.789
was the case with the group that existed west

00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:53.629
to the Appalachian Mountains, where opposition

00:09:53.629 --> 00:09:59.210
to involvement in the war was particularly rife.

00:10:00.210 --> 00:10:03.169
Strategically, the reasoning behind the principles

00:10:03.169 --> 00:10:05.570
of America First involved the number of assumptions

00:10:05.570 --> 00:10:10.309
of a dubious nature. Can anything be described

00:10:10.309 --> 00:10:15.299
as impregnable? Any defense is any defense perfect?

00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:17.940
I mean, it's it's a noble ambition. Yes It's

00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:20.159
hard to be against having an impregnable. I wouldn't

00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:22.139
be against having it It's hard to say I do not

00:10:22.139 --> 00:10:24.440
want us to have an impregnable defense. I favor

00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.759
it, too But it also doesn't say anything, you

00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:30.440
know, because is that really possible and and

00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:32.360
fine, but how do you go about achieving it? Yeah,

00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:34.620
where are we gonna get this impregnable defense

00:10:34.620 --> 00:10:37.019
now? What now they go on and say things that

00:10:37.019 --> 00:10:39.200
they think will will create that I guess but

00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.600
I can I can Dispute some of those two. Please,

00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:44.440
shall we? Shall we take apart the principles

00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:46.980
of America first here, Mike? Well, the first

00:10:46.980 --> 00:10:49.159
one is impregnable defenses, mother of an apple

00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:50.779
pie, fine. Doesn't really tell you anything,

00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:53.700
right? No foreign power can successfully attack

00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:56.879
a prepared America. What does that mean? What

00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:59.080
does successfully attack mean, right? They can't

00:10:59.080 --> 00:11:01.179
ever get the drop on you and sink something or

00:11:01.179 --> 00:11:05.039
blow something up. Yeah. That's a pretty hard

00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:08.220
thing to achieve. Right? It is. If successfully

00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:11.120
attack means win a war with a prepared America.

00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.220
Well, now you're on firmer ground. You know,

00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:15.320
if you're prepared and you can defeat the other

00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:17.799
side after they attack you. But what is prepared?

00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:20.580
Well, then there's that. Yeah. I mean, again,

00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:22.539
we could all be in favor of a prepared America.

00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:24.740
So I'm against being prepared. It's not something

00:11:24.740 --> 00:11:26.559
you can really say, right? It's not a selling

00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:29.940
point. So it doesn't say much, but also it also

00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:32.600
is not clear enough to convey what you really

00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:36.220
mean either, right? I'm not sure that it's ever

00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:37.960
possible to say that no one can ever successfully

00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:40.360
attack us. That's a hard thing to achieve. They

00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:43.539
can't even attack us. Yeah. Or is the issue if

00:11:43.539 --> 00:11:45.659
they do attack us, they're gonna be sorry. Well,

00:11:45.700 --> 00:11:47.559
you know Well, it's kind of this is what this

00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:49.899
is what's interesting about this in terms of

00:11:49.899 --> 00:11:51.940
deterrence deterrents I was gonna say, you know,

00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:55.059
like the whole idea of deterrence is that you

00:11:55.059 --> 00:11:59.360
need to be able to deliver unacceptable consequences

00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.460
for your actions, right that is the principle

00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:07.429
of deterrence here and I don't understand how

00:12:07.429 --> 00:12:09.789
you do this if you set up your military on a

00:12:09.789 --> 00:12:12.909
purely defensive basis. You might be able to

00:12:12.909 --> 00:12:14.549
bloody somebody's noses, but you're not going

00:12:14.549 --> 00:12:19.409
to be able to create those effects that result

00:12:19.409 --> 00:12:24.570
in unacceptable consequences without having a

00:12:24.570 --> 00:12:27.870
potent offensive capability, which they're kind

00:12:27.870 --> 00:12:32.169
of against doing. Because it's all defensive.

00:12:32.429 --> 00:12:35.990
Taking that concept, right? No foreign power

00:12:35.990 --> 00:12:37.929
consists consistently attack a prepared America.

00:12:37.929 --> 00:12:40.889
Okay, fine What you're really talking about is

00:12:40.889 --> 00:12:43.990
I guess no foreign power believes that can attack

00:12:43.990 --> 00:12:47.009
the United States and not suffer intolerable

00:12:47.009 --> 00:12:50.470
consequences That's deterrence. Yes, but I don't

00:12:50.470 --> 00:12:52.250
think that that was actually what they meant

00:12:52.250 --> 00:12:54.730
That was actually what happened but that that

00:12:54.730 --> 00:12:56.289
that's what that's that's what actually happened,

00:12:56.309 --> 00:12:59.250
right? Yeah, but that would make more sense than

00:12:59.250 --> 00:13:02.379
what it would be clearer than what they're saying

00:13:02.379 --> 00:13:04.159
there right that's that's how i would put it

00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:05.460
right it would make it would be a more clear

00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:09.360
goal right um american democracy can only be

00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:10.980
preserved by keeping out of the war in europe

00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:13.940
now that doesn't follow at all well i'm going

00:13:13.940 --> 00:13:17.279
to say this of the of the four i think that one

00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:21.539
might actually if you go back to world war one

00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:24.840
and we talked about this civil liberties took

00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.559
a def a definite beating during world war one

00:13:28.419 --> 00:13:31.220
They they certainly did and if if that is what

00:13:31.220 --> 00:13:34.320
they mean However, the people who are pushing

00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:38.419
this are not mr. Civil liberties types here They're

00:13:38.419 --> 00:13:40.379
not the sort of people that were like worried

00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:46.700
about the IWW being being being Eliminated as

00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:50.460
it was during Wilson's presidency or any of the

00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:53.059
peace activists like Deb's who were thrown in

00:13:53.059 --> 00:13:56.850
jail so I think they might worry that Roosevelt

00:13:56.850 --> 00:13:58.929
might just decide that he's going to throw them

00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:02.929
all throw all his opposition forces in jail or

00:14:02.929 --> 00:14:07.389
them Right and if that's what they mean then

00:14:07.389 --> 00:14:09.750
whether I agree with them or not. It's a coherent

00:14:09.750 --> 00:14:12.950
Point then yeah, I actually would we will do

00:14:12.950 --> 00:14:15.809
we will do terrible things to ourselves if we

00:14:15.809 --> 00:14:18.539
get involved in a war in in Europe, right? Well,

00:14:18.539 --> 00:14:20.080
when you say things like preserving American

00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:22.759
democracy, maybe in that sense, but there's two

00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:25.659
issues at play. One is that, you know, that we're

00:14:25.659 --> 00:14:28.419
going to deny civil liberties to everybody because

00:14:28.419 --> 00:14:30.940
we got involved in a war. OK, that would be a

00:14:30.940 --> 00:14:35.240
bad thing. No question about that. But American

00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:37.279
democracy can only be preserved by keeping out

00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.720
of the war. So if you don't go in and fight in

00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.799
Europe or on the sea or wherever it is you're

00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:44.419
going to fight, and you just let the bad guys,

00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.419
the non -democratic forces, start taking over

00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:48.500
the whole world, I mean, what are you gonna do,

00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:49.899
wait until they're on the border with Canada,

00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:51.299
on the border with Mexico, and then now we're

00:14:51.299 --> 00:14:53.259
gonna preserve democracy by fighting them? You

00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:54.940
probably already lost a chance to save democracy

00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:57.500
in America by that point. So, you know, you have

00:14:57.500 --> 00:15:00.120
to play, as they say in the U .S. Navy, right,

00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.460
you have to play in a way game. You fight over

00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:04.120
there. You don't wait till they're here and then

00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:07.779
fight them. Exactly. Right? So, I mean, that

00:15:07.779 --> 00:15:09.659
one's a complex one because if you're only talking

00:15:09.659 --> 00:15:12.059
about the World War I experience and the denial

00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:15.450
of freedom within the United States, Okay, sure,

00:15:15.690 --> 00:15:19.190
but to say what they say there Doesn't address

00:15:19.190 --> 00:15:21.809
only that no it opens up a whole other danger

00:15:21.809 --> 00:15:23.850
of getting of having the world taken over by

00:15:23.850 --> 00:15:26.909
Well, the thing is people who could eventually

00:15:26.909 --> 00:15:28.929
defeat us someday because they there we're not

00:15:28.929 --> 00:15:39.750
stopping them To keep to bear this in mind. All

00:15:39.750 --> 00:15:41.809
right, you do have dominions as part of the British

00:15:41.809 --> 00:15:45.580
Empire The British Empire consisted of one quarter

00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:49.419
of the Earth's population. So if Britain goes

00:15:49.419 --> 00:15:52.600
under, some of these places come up for grabs

00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:55.700
here, and this puts you closer to the United

00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:58.240
States, your ability to be able to attack the

00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:01.360
Western Hemisphere, which, you know, this is

00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:03.700
the thing about Britain. Britain has like a weird

00:16:04.269 --> 00:16:07.429
way of being perceived by people, both pro and

00:16:07.429 --> 00:16:10.529
anti, in the lead up. I mean, if you if you look

00:16:10.529 --> 00:16:14.190
at some films that they have, like I'll give

00:16:14.190 --> 00:16:16.110
an example, that Hamilton woman, which is all

00:16:16.110 --> 00:16:20.350
about Nelson. It's like Nelson showing Emma Hamilton,

00:16:20.490 --> 00:16:22.509
here's this little spot and this is England.

00:16:23.769 --> 00:16:26.870
And no, England's this big empire at the time.

00:16:26.909 --> 00:16:29.029
They owned frickin Canada during the Napoleonic

00:16:29.029 --> 00:16:31.730
period. They own all sorts of places. All right.

00:16:31.730 --> 00:16:34.549
That's one way Britain gets portrayed here. Another

00:16:34.549 --> 00:16:38.929
way is this vast empire that can certainly take

00:16:38.929 --> 00:16:43.509
care of itself, but sometimes we don't want to

00:16:43.509 --> 00:16:45.129
recognize that. We don't want to pretend that

00:16:45.129 --> 00:16:48.710
that's part of what we need to take into a calculation

00:16:48.710 --> 00:16:53.929
here. That say Britain falls, well, government

00:16:53.929 --> 00:16:59.250
moves to Canada, then Canada falls within the

00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:02.419
realm of conflict, because war is being continued

00:17:02.419 --> 00:17:04.480
by the British government in exile in Canada.

00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:08.140
So Canada's on the border. We're not really taking

00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:11.160
that under consideration as to what could happen

00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.099
if dominions start falling or what's going to

00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:17.240
happen there. You know, Canada is a belligerent

00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:19.480
during, during. Canada joined at the very beginning

00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:21.960
of the war. Yes. To support the empire. Yes.

00:17:22.259 --> 00:17:26.259
So the idea that you can, that basically everything

00:17:26.259 --> 00:17:32.250
bad is outside the hemisphere. is kind of an

00:17:32.250 --> 00:17:34.589
interesting notion, but it's not terribly realistic.

00:17:35.009 --> 00:17:39.549
Well, there's also, and this kind of gets comic

00:17:39.549 --> 00:17:43.609
stripped into being a silly idea by a lot of

00:17:43.609 --> 00:17:46.789
people who look at it. But the idea that Germany

00:17:46.789 --> 00:17:48.930
was gonna conquer Africa and then come across

00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:51.029
into Brazil and come up through Mexico and there'd

00:17:51.029 --> 00:17:54.390
be German tanks driving into Texas. Yeah. Is

00:17:54.390 --> 00:17:56.930
a pretty fanciful thing. Yeah, but that's because

00:17:56.930 --> 00:17:58.509
you're only thinking about it in terms of you

00:17:58.509 --> 00:18:01.269
know Hitler engaging in Napoleonic conquest all

00:18:01.269 --> 00:18:03.990
over the world, right? And Germany couldn't do

00:18:03.990 --> 00:18:07.410
that But what Germany could do is it could garner

00:18:07.410 --> 00:18:09.869
support from various Latin American countries

00:18:09.869 --> 00:18:13.349
and and you know Governments it could try to

00:18:13.349 --> 00:18:15.450
influence events in Latin America to get a more

00:18:15.450 --> 00:18:19.250
favorable Latin America Yes I mean, there's plenty

00:18:19.250 --> 00:18:22.170
of authoritarian people in Latin America who

00:18:22.170 --> 00:18:24.190
you might be able to curry favor with and things.

00:18:24.650 --> 00:18:27.250
And so you could wind up with a much less pro

00:18:27.250 --> 00:18:29.410
-American or even anti -American Latin America

00:18:29.410 --> 00:18:32.349
falling more into the German orbit if the Germans

00:18:32.349 --> 00:18:35.190
played their cards right, which they rarely did

00:18:35.190 --> 00:18:38.410
and didn't in that case. But I mean, I'm just

00:18:38.410 --> 00:18:41.490
saying, the idea that the hemisphere is safe

00:18:41.490 --> 00:18:45.450
because of the ocean is certainly not true. No.

00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:50.539
It is not true. And in the case of say Argentina,

00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.960
Argentina had like outsized understanding of

00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.279
its role in the world and they believe themselves

00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:59.779
to be like the only power in the Western hemisphere

00:18:59.779 --> 00:19:02.940
who was a real competitor for leadership with

00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:07.740
the United States. And they also had a large

00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:13.609
number of Italians living there and They had

00:19:13.609 --> 00:19:16.710
eventually a government that was very pro Hitler

00:19:16.710 --> 00:19:22.630
and very pro Mussolini there that later became

00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:25.950
that later made Argentina a place for ex Nazis

00:19:25.950 --> 00:19:28.890
to go and hide after the war. So, you know, one

00:19:28.890 --> 00:19:31.250
of the things that Roosevelt embarked on in the

00:19:31.250 --> 00:19:32.970
lead up to the war is also the good neighbor

00:19:32.970 --> 00:19:35.930
policy in which, hey, guys, we're not going to

00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:39.430
like. Lorded over you as we have in the past

00:19:39.430 --> 00:19:43.150
and And invade you and and all of this we're

00:19:43.150 --> 00:19:45.609
all going to be like part of this great Western

00:19:45.609 --> 00:19:50.450
hemisphere group Because this is a potential

00:19:50.450 --> 00:19:54.369
weak spot for us that the Germans could potentially

00:19:54.369 --> 00:19:57.849
exploit They never I mean they they were able

00:19:57.849 --> 00:20:00.250
to gain some inroads into Argentina, but they

00:20:00.250 --> 00:20:02.869
weren't necessarily able to realize any real

00:20:02.869 --> 00:20:05.579
benefit from them You know, and this goes back

00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:07.660
to like what we saw in World War I with the Zimmerman

00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:13.599
telegram. It's like, uh, there is a perception,

00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:16.640
there is some weakness. And I don't think that

00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.380
for all people talking about hemispheric solidarity,

00:20:20.299 --> 00:20:22.700
that that was necessarily a given, particularly

00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:25.180
by the America first crowd. Right. So I mean,

00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:26.880
there's, you know, there's something to be said

00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.680
for, for the fact that, um, you got to play Nick

00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:33.930
Way game. You got to play an away game right

00:20:33.930 --> 00:20:35.470
to keep the even even to keep the hemisphere

00:20:35.470 --> 00:20:38.150
safe. Yeah Let alone the country then this thing

00:20:38.150 --> 00:20:40.230
about aid to the allies weakens national defense

00:20:40.230 --> 00:20:42.069
and threatens to involve America in the war.

00:20:42.170 --> 00:20:49.029
Okay, I mean I Guess it could involve America

00:20:49.029 --> 00:20:52.910
in the war if we're sending ships full of military

00:20:52.910 --> 00:20:57.990
aid over to Britain all of it and earlier on

00:20:57.990 --> 00:21:01.980
France in the war and and those ships start getting

00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:05.180
sunk, and it's the next Lusitania incident, and

00:21:05.180 --> 00:21:06.599
we say, we can't have this anymore. That's how

00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:08.640
we got into World War I, right? So we're gonna

00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.920
start getting involved. And in fairness to them,

00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.839
if that's the right way to put it, we were doing

00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:16.460
the neutrality patrol all the way out to Iceland

00:21:16.460 --> 00:21:20.059
in 1941. Not a convoy. Right? Not convoy, but

00:21:20.059 --> 00:21:23.779
yeah. But there's another issue here in the way

00:21:23.779 --> 00:21:26.019
they state that, right? Aid to the Allies weakens

00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:32.180
national defense. How but didn't we also? depend

00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:37.940
upon the French Army and the British Navy To

00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:41.000
kind of safeguard our hemisphere as part of our

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.720
overall calculations prior to the war from that

00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.680
direction. Yes, but Yes, we'll get it out of

00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:49.900
the second But here's what I want to say about

00:21:49.900 --> 00:21:51.519
what they're saying there right a to the allies

00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:52.900
weakness National Defense You know what I see

00:21:52.900 --> 00:21:54.839
in that again. It's a through line. I see again

00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.480
right over and over again. There's this idea

00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.579
That the pie is only so big. Yes. Right. And

00:22:00.579 --> 00:22:02.920
you can't make it any bigger. Exactly. And so

00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.259
the only way to make it bigger is to make your

00:22:05.259 --> 00:22:07.960
share bigger is to make your pie piece bigger.

00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:09.940
And I see that again here, the idea kind of like,

00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:12.700
well, if we aid in the allies, then that's less

00:22:12.700 --> 00:22:16.640
for us. There isn't a sense of if we build up

00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:20.869
our factories for armaments. Because we're aiding

00:22:20.869 --> 00:22:23.269
the allies then we wind up with more factories

00:22:23.269 --> 00:22:25.849
for armaments, which when then we can buy for

00:22:25.849 --> 00:22:27.609
ourselves Yeah, and then those factories make

00:22:27.609 --> 00:22:31.150
money off the allies and off us, right? And you

00:22:31.150 --> 00:22:33.470
know, but I don't see that idea here All I see

00:22:33.470 --> 00:22:34.750
is the idea like there's only so much stuff you

00:22:34.750 --> 00:22:36.569
can ever produce now by giving to the allies

00:22:36.569 --> 00:22:38.990
There's less you have here that and that doesn't

00:22:38.990 --> 00:22:41.250
follow Well, there's also you know It could be

00:22:41.250 --> 00:22:43.250
that you're sending them too many planes or tanks

00:22:43.250 --> 00:22:44.750
or something that you needed here sure that could

00:22:44.750 --> 00:22:47.710
happen But it's not a given but there's also

00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:51.779
a notion that I see, with Lindbergh in particular,

00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.839
but probably others as well, that there's only

00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:58.700
a finite amount beyond peacetime production that

00:22:58.700 --> 00:23:03.059
can be produced in terms of military outlays

00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:06.480
here. Lindbergh was really big on planes, and

00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.700
he saw German plane production and everybody

00:23:09.700 --> 00:23:12.160
else's plane production about 35, but as you

00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:16.380
mentioned, 37. people start ramping up here and

00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:20.539
so he's actually constantly being his understanding

00:23:20.539 --> 00:23:23.980
of the world and the reasons for isolationism

00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:29.779
are being Derived from out -of -date calculations

00:23:30.340 --> 00:23:32.220
that he did have first -hand knowledge of. But

00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:36.180
again, it's this inability to kind of adapt to

00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:38.920
changing circumstances in your calculations that

00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:41.140
affects his kind of strategic judgment. So, I

00:23:41.140 --> 00:23:43.259
mean, in an absolute sense, you can probably

00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:47.119
sit there and do a bunch of complicated calculations

00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:50.160
that shows you can only build your defense sector

00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:52.160
out to a certain size. That's all the time you'll

00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:54.259
support. And then you have to portion that between

00:23:54.259 --> 00:23:55.460
how much you're going to keep for what you need

00:23:55.460 --> 00:23:57.160
for your own defense needs and how much are you

00:23:57.160 --> 00:23:58.859
going to give to other people, right? I understand

00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:01.160
you can make that. that argument and draw reasonable

00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:03.500
conclusions and that people might disagree over

00:24:03.500 --> 00:24:05.000
those conclusions, right? And there could be

00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.980
a debate to be had there. But just the overall

00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:09.839
statement that aid to the allies weakens national

00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.200
defense makes no sense to me. If they're your

00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:16.079
allies and they're fighting a common enemy, then

00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:18.839
if they fight them, that's in your national defense,

00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:20.420
even though you're not doing it yourself, they're

00:24:20.420 --> 00:24:22.400
doing it for you. And by aiding them, you help

00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:26.619
them do it. So, you know, that's a funny thing.

00:24:27.019 --> 00:24:29.970
Now you're talking about the British and the

00:24:29.970 --> 00:24:32.849
French, right, in our strategy. And it's actually

00:24:32.849 --> 00:24:35.730
a much more interesting idea there than a lot

00:24:35.730 --> 00:24:38.150
of people believe. I mean, thanks to the Simpsons,

00:24:38.230 --> 00:24:40.789
we now consider the French to be the cheese -eating

00:24:40.789 --> 00:24:42.710
surrender monkeys, I think, right, is the way

00:24:42.710 --> 00:24:44.829
most people think about it. And they did fall

00:24:44.829 --> 00:24:47.750
apart quickly in the Battle of France in 1940

00:24:47.750 --> 00:24:49.589
for various reasons we don't need to get into,

00:24:49.710 --> 00:24:53.970
but in May, June, they fell in six weeks. But

00:24:53.970 --> 00:24:57.500
that was shocking when that happened. During

00:24:57.500 --> 00:25:00.039
the interwar period, ever since World War I had

00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.160
ended, U .S. military strategy and overall global

00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.940
strategy was that our future war we might have

00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:07.579
to worry about is with Japan and the Pacific,

00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:09.460
because there's an ocean there, and it's a big

00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:11.160
ocean, but there's nothing in between us and

00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:13.559
Japan, right? So that's where the war is going

00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:15.779
to be. What about on the Atlantic side? What

00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:18.299
about over there in Europe? Well, the Royal Navy

00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:20.619
was over there, so presumably the Royal Navy

00:25:20.619 --> 00:25:22.319
would be fighting the Germans. We could rely

00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:25.140
on them to do that for us at sea. And on land,

00:25:25.339 --> 00:25:28.579
the French Army. which I remember, and again,

00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:31.880
another story of what my dad told me was, when,

00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:36.119
he remembered, he was in high school at the time,

00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.700
and he said he remembered that the war started,

00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:41.359
and he said the attitude that he had, that others

00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:42.519
around him had, was that it's nothing really

00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:44.579
to worry about very much, because the British

00:25:44.579 --> 00:25:47.539
Navy's huge, and the French army can defeat the

00:25:47.539 --> 00:25:50.500
Germans. It's the biggest, best army in the world.

00:25:53.259 --> 00:25:55.119
Didn't work out that way, did it? But at the

00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.799
time, that's what people thought. But we were

00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:58.940
relying on the French army to do much better

00:25:58.940 --> 00:26:03.039
than it actually did to fight more like it had

00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:05.000
in World War I, when it was a huge bulwark against

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:06.240
the Germans. We assumed that would happen again.

00:26:06.660 --> 00:26:08.519
When France fell so quickly and suddenly there

00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:10.839
was nothing stopping the Germans anymore, this

00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:13.799
opened up a great strategic fear in the United

00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:15.660
States. You know, the bulwark has been knocked

00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.759
down. Vichy France is officially neutral, but

00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:21.559
pro -Axis. The French Navy was a significant

00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:23.680
force that could fall under German control and

00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:25.140
strengthen the German challenge to the Royal

00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:28.000
Navy. The French had extensive colonies in North

00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.740
Africa and West Africa, and that could possibly

00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:32.779
open up naval and air bases there to the Germans,

00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:34.880
and it could bring the Germans closer to South

00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.740
America. And we're not ready to defend the United

00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:42.539
States from that direction. We better support

00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:47.900
the British. We better support the British. And

00:26:47.900 --> 00:26:50.539
that's been largely forgotten. Even even among

00:26:50.539 --> 00:26:52.400
military historians. You rarely hear about how

00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:55.160
much France mattered in in in our in our interwar

00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:57.460
calculations about the you know, the strategic

00:26:57.460 --> 00:26:59.839
balance and the military balance and such but

00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:03.259
but it did and France was so quickly was a huge

00:27:03.259 --> 00:27:05.599
had a huge impact on all this Yeah, that was

00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:07.579
in May of 1940. That was a year and a half before

00:27:07.579 --> 00:27:10.640
I mean if you look at what June 1940s when they

00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:13.279
fell I should say Churchill is just like absolutely

00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:16.440
panic -stricken as this is happening And he is

00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:19.039
constantly flying back and forth to France to

00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:22.079
try and stiffen their resolve and even trying

00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:24.680
to bring in Roosevelt to tell the French to sort

00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:27.440
of like don't surrender. You need to fight on.

00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:29.839
You need to establish strategic lines and so

00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.180
forth. And everything's just collapsing on them.

00:27:33.380 --> 00:27:35.779
So and it's not clear that the Germans ever could

00:27:35.779 --> 00:27:37.539
have gotten across the English Channel and forced

00:27:37.539 --> 00:27:40.380
to take England. But but that wasn't clear at

00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:44.599
the time either. Yes. So again. You had that

00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:46.380
worry that you know all of a sudden you you know

00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:50.380
to defend America You might have to have the

00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:52.700
British government in Canada. Yes, and the Navy

00:27:52.700 --> 00:27:55.539
on the front lines there Well, I mean with with

00:27:55.539 --> 00:27:59.140
with with Roosevelt Roosevelt didn't you know

00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:01.980
Despite public statements. He wasn't sure what

00:28:01.980 --> 00:28:05.059
was going to happen with Britain after the fall

00:28:05.059 --> 00:28:10.369
of France And we have all these worrying discussions

00:28:10.369 --> 00:28:14.269
about air power and their ability to be able

00:28:14.269 --> 00:28:19.230
to go into various places and take them over

00:28:19.230 --> 00:28:23.569
very quickly, supported by the air. And the Battle

00:28:23.569 --> 00:28:26.470
of Britain made a big difference in his calculations

00:28:26.470 --> 00:28:30.710
and what he was willing to risk. And also, interestingly,

00:28:32.849 --> 00:28:35.049
there was a lot of fear about the French fleet.

00:28:36.320 --> 00:28:38.500
And Britain went in and they basically said,

00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:40.160
you can either join us or we're going to sink

00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:43.960
you. And when Churchill just sunk the French

00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:48.740
fleet there, that really showed that Churchill

00:28:48.740 --> 00:28:53.140
had the balls to basically go and do whatever

00:28:53.140 --> 00:28:56.099
it took. I mean, this is still a big issue with

00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:58.759
the French right now between French and, you

00:28:58.759 --> 00:29:00.339
know, you talk to French people and you talk

00:29:00.339 --> 00:29:02.819
to British people about the war. This is a big

00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:05.140
sticking point for them that the British can't,

00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:08.920
but it was a necessity because they because one

00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:10.900
did not want the French fleet to fall into the

00:29:10.900 --> 00:29:14.180
German. German hands because they as usual they're

00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:15.500
they're focused on the land. They're focused

00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:18.160
on the air. They did not necessarily have the

00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.460
sea power to go and Beyond submarines to be able

00:29:22.460 --> 00:29:28.319
to go and and do much In that period so these

00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:30.420
are the shocking events of the summer of 1940.

00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.240
Yes, so Where does that leave us with America

00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:45.829
first? America First, you know, again, it comes

00:29:45.829 --> 00:29:50.069
into being in the middle of the election. Elections

00:29:50.069 --> 00:29:52.750
in those days did not start immediately after

00:29:52.750 --> 00:29:54.970
the last election. They started in September.

00:29:55.789 --> 00:29:59.890
America First kind of was established and invented

00:29:59.890 --> 00:30:03.450
and people were coming around establishing chapters

00:30:03.450 --> 00:30:06.430
simultaneously with the election, but it doesn't

00:30:06.430 --> 00:30:08.970
really have much of a role in that election.

00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:14.500
You know, this doesn't get discussed. There was

00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:18.180
no candidate who's going to be doing things like

00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:22.400
opposing aid to Britain here. It does come into

00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.539
effect when Roosevelt takes his first steps after

00:30:26.539 --> 00:30:31.400
the election with a major piece of legislation

00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:35.059
that provided Lend -Lease. And Lend -Lease was

00:30:35.059 --> 00:30:39.339
a concept by which we would loan military equipment

00:30:39.579 --> 00:30:42.819
to, at first, Britain, but this later expanded

00:30:42.819 --> 00:30:46.220
to other countries. Loan equipment to Britain,

00:30:46.700 --> 00:30:49.299
all they had to do was return it after the war

00:30:49.299 --> 00:30:52.240
was over. And this was a way of saying we're

00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:55.900
not necessarily selling people things. We're

00:30:55.900 --> 00:30:58.259
not necessarily getting involved. We just want

00:30:58.259 --> 00:31:00.839
our ships back when the war is over, or our planes

00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:04.920
back, or whatever. You know, Roosevelt used the

00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.150
analogy that, say, His neighbor's house is on

00:31:09.150 --> 00:31:13.329
fire. He basically loans him the garden hose

00:31:13.329 --> 00:31:17.609
to put out the fire. This saves his house from

00:31:17.609 --> 00:31:20.690
catching on fire. And then at the end, the garden

00:31:20.690 --> 00:31:23.430
hose gets returned. That was what Lynn Lease

00:31:23.430 --> 00:31:25.390
was supposed to be about. Now this was hotly

00:31:25.390 --> 00:31:29.529
debated over a period of weeks on Capitol Hill.

00:31:30.589 --> 00:31:33.349
And America First, this was their first test.

00:31:33.710 --> 00:31:39.029
to show their political strength here against

00:31:39.029 --> 00:31:42.869
Roosevelt's long -standing mastery of Capitol

00:31:42.869 --> 00:31:44.950
Hill, even though he'd lost some political points

00:31:44.950 --> 00:31:49.430
over the court packing scheme. So Lindbergh even

00:31:49.430 --> 00:31:54.670
testified, again emphasizing things like hemispheric

00:31:54.670 --> 00:32:00.279
defense. He is not a member of Lindley's. I mean,

00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:03.779
Lindbergh is not a member of America First at

00:32:03.779 --> 00:32:06.819
this point. He is still off on his roving commission,

00:32:06.819 --> 00:32:12.000
but he has a lot of common interest with America

00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:19.640
First. So what we did see happen is eventually

00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:25.339
in March of 1941, and I think Timelines in 1941

00:32:25.339 --> 00:32:28.359
are interesting when you look at them in terms

00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.819
of what this means. But in 41, Lindley passes.

00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:35.740
And so America First, the America First Corporation

00:32:35.740 --> 00:32:39.079
or committee, rather, has failed in its first

00:32:39.079 --> 00:32:43.059
attempt to demonstrate political strength. They

00:32:43.059 --> 00:32:45.119
put up quite the fight on Capitol Hill, but they've

00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:51.599
been ultimately unsuccessful. So in April, the

00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:57.420
following month, America First pitches leadership,

00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:02.119
the position of head of America First is offered

00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:06.059
to Lindbergh. Now Lindbergh doesn't want this.

00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:10.059
He sees this as a purely administrative one and

00:33:10.059 --> 00:33:11.799
it's going to get in the way of his speechifying.

00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:15.799
You know, I think if we're going to talk about

00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:19.000
what Lindbergh's goal is, it is not political

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:21.500
power because every time he's offered this, he

00:33:21.500 --> 00:33:25.819
can have this for the asking. You know, General

00:33:25.819 --> 00:33:28.220
Wood of Sears Roebuck has basically said, you

00:33:28.220 --> 00:33:29.940
can be in charge of this. He says, I don't want

00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:32.900
to be in charge of this. He's not seeking an

00:33:32.900 --> 00:33:35.720
elective office. I mean, Lindbergh has a lot

00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:40.160
of odious political positions, but he's not necessarily

00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:48.000
going for grab for power here. So, he does join

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.720
the organization as a speaker. Now, it's probably

00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.119
interesting to note where America First is going

00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:59.440
to be in terms of an organization during this

00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:06.400
period and what sort of factors are coming into

00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:11.780
it. I mentioned that Henry Ford was a member.

00:34:12.759 --> 00:34:17.500
initially because of his desire to avoid conflict.

00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:22.219
Well, Henry Ford was enough to put off many Jews

00:34:22.219 --> 00:34:26.960
from joining America First. So Jewish membership

00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.800
in America First is just not going to be a factor.

00:34:30.460 --> 00:34:34.900
It doesn't happen because immediately it is identified

00:34:34.900 --> 00:34:38.940
with anti -Semitism. It is immediately a factor

00:34:38.940 --> 00:34:42.179
in what makes up certain people's perceptions

00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:51.940
of things. Lindbergh does go out. He does share

00:34:51.940 --> 00:34:54.360
a lot of views that are similar to Ford, though,

00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:58.360
but he's not necessarily tainted by them. I mean,

00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:00.420
I'll give an example of this. This is before

00:35:00.420 --> 00:35:07.179
he joined America First. He said that he felt

00:35:07.179 --> 00:35:10.409
like the war was counterproductive. This is right

00:35:10.409 --> 00:35:13.130
after the war starts, and this was a speech that

00:35:13.130 --> 00:35:15.969
was broadcast on all three networks. The people

00:35:15.969 --> 00:35:19.050
of northern and western European descent were

00:35:19.050 --> 00:35:22.289
the safeguards of civilization against the threat

00:35:22.289 --> 00:35:26.250
from Asia, and this includes Bolsheviks in the

00:35:26.250 --> 00:35:30.610
Soviet Union. Lindberg argued that rather than

00:35:30.610 --> 00:35:34.130
fighting each other, the Europeans and the United

00:35:34.130 --> 00:35:37.969
States should defend the white race against foreign

00:35:37.969 --> 00:35:42.250
invasion by these lesser people." So Lindbergh

00:35:42.250 --> 00:35:45.489
still is a believer in eugenics. He's not, again,

00:35:45.530 --> 00:35:47.929
he's still the hero, he's still the lone eagle,

00:35:48.429 --> 00:35:54.989
but Lindbergh has these views that, if not as

00:35:54.989 --> 00:36:02.949
well known as Henry Ford's anti -Semitism, They

00:36:02.949 --> 00:36:10.309
were certainly just as pronounced. And kind of

00:36:10.309 --> 00:36:12.449
this was one of the reasons that led Lindbergh

00:36:12.449 --> 00:36:18.809
to be a late arrival in America first existence.

00:36:19.070 --> 00:36:22.239
They don't show up. But clearly, after this big

00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.619
defeat over Lynn Lease, they need some star power

00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:28.139
and they figure this is something that Lindbergh

00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:31.380
can provide here. When Lindbergh was testifying

00:36:31.380 --> 00:36:34.480
during the Lynn Lease hearings, he was treated

00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:38.719
very respectfully, even by interventionist congressmen.

00:36:39.099 --> 00:36:42.889
He was also applauded. when he came and went.

00:36:43.369 --> 00:36:46.190
There were plenty of people here in the greater

00:36:46.190 --> 00:36:49.610
DC area who respected him enough to show up merely

00:36:49.610 --> 00:36:52.090
to see him, merely to be in the same room with

00:36:52.090 --> 00:36:58.369
him. So Lindberg had a lot of following from

00:36:58.369 --> 00:37:01.489
the population as a whole, and his addition to

00:37:01.489 --> 00:37:04.809
an organization like Ameri -First was, could

00:37:04.809 --> 00:37:08.840
be potentially devastating to Roosevelt. And

00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:11.420
his popularity, just to be clear, it persisted

00:37:11.420 --> 00:37:13.840
after he said all these hateful, racist, terrible

00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:17.440
things, or did that have an impact on it? At

00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:20.039
first. He didn't get canceled in the modern sense

00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.599
of getting canceled. Well, wait. That's going

00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.460
to happen. OK, all right. That will happen. Tell

00:37:25.460 --> 00:37:29.099
me more. But I'll just say this. Those remarks

00:37:29.099 --> 00:37:32.639
about protecting the white race, they're not

00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:36.980
as bad as they seem to us now, they're not bad

00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:41.599
enough to lead to him being canceled. He will

00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:44.739
make that mistake later on. But at the time,

00:37:44.739 --> 00:37:46.880
a lot of people will nod and go, he's right.

00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:49.539
Yeah, yeah, why are you race? Yeah, sure. Yeah,

00:37:49.539 --> 00:37:51.920
you know, and it's like, you know. Who would

00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:54.599
be against that? Who could be against that? It's

00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:56.599
like having an impregnable defense at the time.

00:37:56.599 --> 00:38:01.679
Yeah, okay. You know. Right. So he was advocating

00:38:03.889 --> 00:38:10.710
his standing as a leading expert on aviation

00:38:10.710 --> 00:38:17.389
at the time, and he basically said there is no

00:38:17.389 --> 00:38:20.150
reason that the United States need fear Germany.

00:38:21.050 --> 00:38:23.710
Lindbergh's position was that he wanted both

00:38:23.710 --> 00:38:27.610
sides to lose. And I can't really see that happening.

00:38:27.610 --> 00:38:29.710
I can't really see saying, Lindbergh saying,

00:38:29.809 --> 00:38:32.610
oh, we just need a negotiated settlement between,

00:38:32.610 --> 00:38:36.789
I guess, Britain and Germany, where neither side

00:38:36.789 --> 00:38:38.849
wins. That's his position. That's what he thinks

00:38:38.849 --> 00:38:41.369
we should be trying to advance here, rather than

00:38:41.369 --> 00:38:45.250
the victory of one over the other. To have that

00:38:45.250 --> 00:38:47.769
happen, you'd have to have them fight to mutual

00:38:47.769 --> 00:38:49.989
exhaustion. Yeah. And be in a weaker position

00:38:49.989 --> 00:38:51.590
at the end of the war than either of them was

00:38:51.590 --> 00:38:54.110
in the beginning of the war. That could be an

00:38:54.110 --> 00:38:57.110
outcome. But it would take probably 20, 30 years.

00:38:57.110 --> 00:38:59.210
It wouldn't be an outcome in 1940 or whatever

00:38:59.210 --> 00:39:01.889
he's saying this, that's for sure, or 41. Yeah.

00:39:01.889 --> 00:39:05.610
Yeah. And I mean, he's again saying, you know,

00:39:05.630 --> 00:39:07.630
you should be thinking about, you know, I don't

00:39:07.630 --> 00:39:11.050
think he's changed his opinion about where the

00:39:11.050 --> 00:39:13.710
real threat lies, which is going to be things

00:39:13.710 --> 00:39:20.320
like communism and Bolshevism and all these sinister

00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.800
forces in the East here. Lindbergh's not going

00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:24.980
to have a problem with us going to war with Japan.

00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:30.480
It's Germany. And there's a lot of factors like

00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:33.219
we've examined previously that are driving him

00:39:33.219 --> 00:39:37.159
on this, this idea that Germany's this invincible

00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:42.019
power, but also a power that doesn't pose any

00:39:42.019 --> 00:39:47.280
real threat to America, or ever will in his mind.

00:39:48.699 --> 00:39:51.880
If you look at what he's saying, he is not saying

00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:55.159
that there is ever going to be a case where they're

00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.079
going to be able to present a threat to us. So

00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:00.059
we should just let things play out in Europe

00:40:00.059 --> 00:40:03.780
until they get to a negotiated settlement, because

00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:07.079
it's going to be too hard for us to be able to

00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:12.079
do an invasion of the European continent. That

00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.659
just can't happen. We are unable to do this.

00:40:15.659 --> 00:40:21.440
This is impossible. And that's his position in

00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.519
1941. Now just think about what's going to happen

00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:27.659
and we can imagine how impossible that's going

00:40:27.659 --> 00:40:31.199
to be, you know, depending on how you want to

00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:35.260
look at this, you know, if you want to look at,

00:40:35.260 --> 00:40:37.500
if you want to look at North Africa or if you

00:40:37.500 --> 00:40:39.400
want to look at Italy or if you even want to

00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:43.599
wait three years and go to D -Day there, this,

00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:46.659
this shows you kind of the depth and breadth

00:40:46.659 --> 00:40:50.920
of his ability to successfully predict strategic

00:40:50.920 --> 00:40:54.699
outcomes here and look at what might happen under

00:40:54.699 --> 00:40:56.760
changing circumstances. This is kind of what

00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.579
I think is one of his weaknesses as a military

00:40:59.579 --> 00:41:03.880
strategist here, but these are things that are

00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:07.480
definitely driving his view of why we should

00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:10.579
avoid the war. You know, there's a mixture of

00:41:10.579 --> 00:41:12.980
racism and the protection of the great white

00:41:12.980 --> 00:41:16.619
race, but there's also this sort of inability

00:41:16.619 --> 00:41:19.780
to be able to achieve certain goals like invading

00:41:19.780 --> 00:41:22.360
the European continent and bringing the war to

00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:24.639
Germany. He just says that can't happen. That's

00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:38.119
just impossible. So it's interesting what you

00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:43.460
say about Lundberg's views on our ability to

00:41:43.659 --> 00:41:46.840
Make war on Germany, I guess is what he's because

00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:52.199
I just recently saw it Dr. Andrew Roberts. Yes

00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:54.760
wrote a book called why Hitler lost the war German

00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:56.760
strategic make mistakes in World War two and

00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.320
on YouTube here It was a 2012 lecture. He gave

00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:01.539
it up at the US Army War College up in Carlisle.

00:42:01.539 --> 00:42:06.179
Mm -hmm. And I watched it recently and he said

00:42:06.179 --> 00:42:10.300
that You know, why did the Germans declare war

00:42:10.300 --> 00:42:14.920
on the United States, you know in 1941? And none

00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:16.780
of the Nazi leaders knew much about the United

00:42:16.780 --> 00:42:18.559
States. Only one had ever been to United States,

00:42:18.699 --> 00:42:21.880
Ribbentrop, right? The forward minister. And

00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:23.460
when he came back, he said, the United States

00:42:23.460 --> 00:42:25.320
can't really be a threat to us because it's,

00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:26.940
you know, this is a Nazi terminology, right?

00:42:27.099 --> 00:42:29.000
They're a mongrelized country, right? There's

00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:30.920
all these different races there and everything,

00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.570
right? A country like that can never. You know

00:42:33.570 --> 00:42:35.269
could never get its act together to fight a country

00:42:35.269 --> 00:42:40.570
like ours And so he he the the the the nazi leadership

00:42:40.570 --> 00:42:42.570
estimated and I don't know where they got this

00:42:42.570 --> 00:42:44.570
from but they estimated that it would take the

00:42:44.570 --> 00:42:47.909
united states until 1970 To put together a field

00:42:47.909 --> 00:42:50.409
army to be able to invade europe So they could

00:42:50.409 --> 00:42:51.710
go ahead and declare war on the us because it'd

00:42:51.710 --> 00:42:53.730
be 30 years before a country like ours could

00:42:53.730 --> 00:42:55.389
ever get its act together to get a Could they

00:42:55.389 --> 00:42:57.550
get an army over there to fight them on the european

00:42:57.550 --> 00:43:00.280
continent? It kind of sounds like what Lindbergh

00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:03.199
is saying, maybe more detailed and more explicitly,

00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:05.480
but it's almost like he's giving you their talking

00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:07.300
points. It's interesting. I don't know if he

00:43:07.300 --> 00:43:09.760
came to it independently or someone dropped that

00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:13.219
thought in his ear or what, but it's there. It's

00:43:13.219 --> 00:43:16.960
very interesting to me. I mean, when he talks

00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:20.179
about things, both in the diaries and in public

00:43:20.179 --> 00:43:27.289
statements, Lindbergh is basically not. assertions.

00:43:27.630 --> 00:43:30.269
I mean, he can back up what he's saying about

00:43:30.269 --> 00:43:32.449
aircraft, because he's saying at the beginning,

00:43:33.769 --> 00:43:36.769
there are no aircraft that can take off from

00:43:36.769 --> 00:43:41.190
Europe and invade the United States. And that's

00:43:41.190 --> 00:43:48.530
true. In 1940, 41, that's true. But then he starts

00:43:48.530 --> 00:43:51.329
talking about, when he starts talking about things

00:43:51.329 --> 00:43:56.179
that involve maritime, issues, he just basically

00:43:56.179 --> 00:44:00.579
presumes that aviation will save the day, and

00:44:00.579 --> 00:44:04.360
he's really bad on being able to grasp what's

00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:08.460
going on on the ground domain there. He just

00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:11.019
doesn't seem to have it in my opinion. Well,

00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:13.280
this is not like a History of the Military podcast

00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.639
right now or something, but to put it in context

00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:19.840
though, this was the thinking of air theorists.

00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:22.420
of the post -World War I era. They developed

00:44:22.420 --> 00:44:24.599
it during the World War I era and they continued

00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:26.500
to hold to this. And they still do to this day,

00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.380
to some extent, hold to this idea that really

00:44:29.380 --> 00:44:32.559
it's all about air power, right? And in some

00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:34.880
cases it's just like, well, that naval and ground

00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:36.719
stuff kind of quaint thing. And yeah, maybe you

00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.199
have to do some of that, but really it's all

00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.239
gonna be decided in the air. But it got so extreme,

00:44:42.380 --> 00:44:48.099
you know, in the 20s that like Billy Mitchell,

00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:51.050
right? Was, you know, famous. Proponent of air

00:44:51.050 --> 00:44:52.389
power. Proponent of air power, right? He was

00:44:52.389 --> 00:44:54.849
in the Army Air Force. He got cashiered – or

00:44:54.849 --> 00:44:56.130
Army Air Service, it was called at the time.

00:44:56.130 --> 00:44:58.909
He got cashiered out of it for – he got court

00:44:58.909 --> 00:45:01.389
-martialed for being insubordinate and that type

00:45:01.389 --> 00:45:02.809
of thing. And when I was growing up, I heard

00:45:02.809 --> 00:45:04.550
about what a terrible thing that was to do to

00:45:04.550 --> 00:45:06.469
him because he was an apostle of air power, and

00:45:06.469 --> 00:45:09.110
it turns out he was right. And then I read the

00:45:09.110 --> 00:45:11.349
original of Billy Mitchell, what he actually

00:45:11.349 --> 00:45:15.099
wrote back then, and it's crazy. You know, he

00:45:15.099 --> 00:45:16.980
said that the airplanes of the 1920s would have

00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:19.199
this one big battle and fight it out over the,

00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:20.739
you know, somewhere over the ocean, I guess.

00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:22.920
And in the first few hours, the war would be

00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:24.420
decided because one side or the other would win.

00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:26.119
And then the one that won that air battle would

00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:27.699
come in and bomb the heck out of the other side

00:45:27.699 --> 00:45:30.320
and just win the war. Navies and armies would

00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:33.000
play no role in future warfare. And this is with

00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:36.840
the aircraft of the 1920s. Right? And that wasn't

00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:38.820
true with the aircraft of the 1940s, which were

00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:41.059
much more capable than the aircraft of the 1920s.

00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:44.920
And it's not true today. 1920s aircraft was made

00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:48.239
out of cloth. Wooden cloth. Wooden cloth, you

00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:50.619
know, we're not talking metal here, so. So without

00:45:50.619 --> 00:45:53.360
going too far down that rabbit hole there, but

00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:55.840
I mean, it was the way air power advocates thought

00:45:55.840 --> 00:46:00.940
at the time, and still do. And he's merely reflecting

00:46:00.940 --> 00:46:04.260
that. But to your point, That's not a strategic

00:46:04.260 --> 00:46:07.659
appreciation of warfare. It's a very technological

00:46:07.659 --> 00:46:11.099
one. Yes. Right? Like you're saying he has. And

00:46:11.099 --> 00:46:13.340
that tends to be where air power advocates are,

00:46:13.420 --> 00:46:15.940
is they understand technology and targeting.

00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:19.159
They're very good at that. But not so good at

00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:21.000
putting that into the broader strategic context

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:25.179
in most cases. And we kind of see that. And here's

00:46:25.179 --> 00:46:29.559
the thing to keep in mind with Lindbergh. Lindbergh,

00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:32.420
ever since he goes over the ocean and flies from

00:46:32.420 --> 00:46:36.920
New York to Paris, everybody defers to him. He

00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:41.119
does not really encounter anything other. Even

00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.639
though he rejects this, he finds it embarrassing.

00:46:44.300 --> 00:46:47.320
He's not really encountering any pushback from

00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:51.119
anybody. When he shows up, people want to hang

00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:53.980
out with him. He's like the popular kid at school.

00:46:55.420 --> 00:46:59.059
Lindbergh himself, you know, during his Sojourn

00:46:59.059 --> 00:47:06.639
in Europe, he's been put forth by his associate

00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:11.260
Dr. Carell there as a kind of superior kind of

00:47:11.260 --> 00:47:18.000
Nordic person, an extreme outstanding representative

00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:21.699
of what Lindbergh would consider the white race.

00:47:22.489 --> 00:47:25.769
And the only person who's really giving him any

00:47:25.769 --> 00:47:31.869
sort of pushback is Roosevelt. And I would say

00:47:31.869 --> 00:47:35.010
Roosevelt was by far the better strategist, and

00:47:35.010 --> 00:47:37.210
that's not something we can really get into here,

00:47:37.230 --> 00:47:43.809
but I would say that this is an important part

00:47:43.809 --> 00:47:47.829
of the dynamic here. You know, Lindberg fits

00:47:47.829 --> 00:47:54.599
the sort of like... demographic as a Roosevelt

00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:57.519
hater, as well as an isolationist, as well as

00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:01.460
a racist, as well as someone who will have certain

00:48:01.460 --> 00:48:09.940
suspicions about certain ethnic groups. So there

00:48:09.940 --> 00:48:13.460
was nothing in Lindbergh's belief system, though.

00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:17.420
His fascination with eugenics and his easy dismissal

00:48:17.420 --> 00:48:20.739
about the causes of the war. to cause reasonable

00:48:20.739 --> 00:48:24.039
people to question his motivations, though, and

00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:28.980
this is going to increase. FDR is increasingly

00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:32.699
going to characterize Lindbergh, if not as a

00:48:32.699 --> 00:48:36.800
traitor, than a copperhead, someone who is favoring

00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:41.840
the opponents of the United States, as did northern

00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:44.559
copperheads during the Civil War support the

00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:48.969
South and a negotiated settlement. with the South

00:48:48.969 --> 00:48:55.070
rather than victory. Despite efforts by the executive

00:48:55.070 --> 00:48:57.869
leadership to keep the appeal of America First

00:48:57.869 --> 00:49:02.570
as broad as possible, by the summer of 41, it

00:49:02.570 --> 00:49:05.389
became hopelessly hijacked by the Nazis and other

00:49:05.389 --> 00:49:09.789
hate groups. Okay, so bear in mind, we're starting

00:49:09.789 --> 00:49:15.880
off with an organization that has kind of prevented

00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:18.340
by its choice of prominent members, in this case

00:49:18.340 --> 00:49:22.099
Henry Ford, any Jewish people joining it and

00:49:22.099 --> 00:49:25.079
being part of the organization. It's not like

00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:30.440
all American Jews were against Hitler, but not

00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:32.639
everybody was. They were also pacifists. There

00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:34.960
were people who were opposed to intervention,

00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:40.559
and they were kind of kept out of this. Then

00:49:40.559 --> 00:49:45.460
what we see happening is June. and the invasion

00:49:45.460 --> 00:49:49.019
of the Soviet Union. This takes out most of the

00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:50.960
left -wing element that had originally joined.

00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:54.199
So this is June 1941, to be clear. June of 1941.

00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:59.539
So with that, this kind of notion, with the Soviet

00:49:59.539 --> 00:50:03.820
Union being threatened by Nazi Germany, opposition

00:50:03.820 --> 00:50:06.739
to things like Lend -Lease, particularly to the

00:50:06.739 --> 00:50:12.739
Soviet Union, and involvement by the United States

00:50:12.739 --> 00:50:16.559
to support the Soviet Union takes that element

00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:21.480
out of America First. So what are you left with?

00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:23.940
You're left with a lot of people from the Midwest

00:50:23.940 --> 00:50:30.219
who are anti -Semitic, anti -European, isolationist,

00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:33.340
and that's the organization that America First

00:50:33.340 --> 00:50:38.320
becomes. over the summer of 1941. So all of the

00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:40.559
worst instincts, this starts out as a fairly

00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:45.000
broad organization, but events that are shaping

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.920
not only the attitudes of the United States are

00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:50.280
also shaping this organization, which is kind

00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:53.619
of meant to be an opponent of involvement in

00:50:53.619 --> 00:51:00.039
World War II. So Lindbergh is remaining very

00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.179
popular with the rank and file of the America

00:51:02.179 --> 00:51:06.630
First Committee. However, Lindberg ruined his

00:51:06.630 --> 00:51:10.150
reputation for all time on September 11, 1941

00:51:10.150 --> 00:51:12.550
during a speech he gave in Des Moines, Iowa.

00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:18.079
In it, he continued to lay responsibility for

00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:20.480
the war on the Roosevelt administration, the

00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:23.800
British Empire, and in particular, the Jews.

00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:26.719
While Lindberg conceded that he understood Jewish

00:51:26.719 --> 00:51:29.639
hostility towards Nazi Germany was a given, he

00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:32.980
added, but no person of honesty and intelligence

00:51:32.980 --> 00:51:36.219
and vision can look upon their pro -war policies

00:51:36.219 --> 00:51:40.559
here today without seeing the dangers involved

00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:45.880
in such a policy both for us and for them. Instead

00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:48.800
of agitating for war, Jewish groups in this country

00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:51.940
should be opposing it in every possible way,

00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:55.840
for they will be among the first to feel its

00:51:55.840 --> 00:51:59.820
consequences. Tolerance is a virtue, but that

00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:02.860
depends upon peace and strength. History shows

00:52:02.860 --> 00:52:06.860
it cannot survive war and devastation. A few

00:52:06.860 --> 00:52:10.099
foresighted Jewish people realize this and they

00:52:10.099 --> 00:52:12.619
are opposed to intervention, but the majority

00:52:12.619 --> 00:52:16.599
still do not. Their greatest danger lies in their

00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:19.780
large ownership and influence in our motion pictures,

00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:25.980
our press, our radio and our government. And

00:52:25.980 --> 00:52:28.639
again, anti -Semitism is not something that's

00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:33.280
necessarily anything other than prevalent throughout

00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:35.579
the United States at the time. This is a bit

00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:38.679
too far, because it is promising. It's not just

00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:43.199
expressing loathing for Jews. It is expressing

00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:48.079
consequences for Jews. It's a threat. It is a

00:52:48.079 --> 00:52:52.579
threat to that specific group of people, and

00:52:52.579 --> 00:52:55.960
that is what makes this go a bit too far. Ann

00:52:55.960 --> 00:53:00.659
Murrow, Lindbergh's wife, She was horrified by

00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:05.960
this. And every single person of note, Wendell

00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:11.000
Willkie, who is Roosevelt's opponent in the election

00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:13.840
of 1940, he basically comes out and says this

00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:17.800
is the worst speech he's ever heard in his entire

00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:23.739
life. And there are similarly other comments

00:53:23.739 --> 00:53:26.800
by other leading officials around the country,

00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:30.030
because this is just This is this this goes beyond

00:53:30.030 --> 00:53:34.409
the pale here. It also claims, you know Jewish

00:53:34.409 --> 00:53:38.369
people control what the media? Motion pictures

00:53:38.369 --> 00:53:41.130
and the government and the government, you know

00:53:41.130 --> 00:53:42.750
And I don't know whether that's a reference to

00:53:42.750 --> 00:53:48.210
Roosevelt being a secret here. But you know But

00:53:48.210 --> 00:53:50.369
it's the you know, it's just this whole idea

00:53:50.369 --> 00:53:52.389
that there's there's they're an evil cabal that

00:53:52.389 --> 00:53:55.170
runs everything and you know, this this this

00:53:55.170 --> 00:53:57.250
whole trope we've been living with for how long

00:53:57.239 --> 00:54:00.840
Right? There it is. I mean, and this basically

00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:04.820
was the end of Lindbergh's reputation as the

00:54:04.820 --> 00:54:07.260
Golden Boy, to come out and say something like

00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:11.300
this. He became quite reclusive after that. He

00:54:11.300 --> 00:54:16.000
became quite reclusive. He did actually under

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:19.929
the table conduct he went to work. He offered

00:54:19.929 --> 00:54:22.349
his services after Pearl Harbor, but there was

00:54:22.349 --> 00:54:25.429
no way Roosevelt was going to take him on. And

00:54:25.429 --> 00:54:29.469
Stemson, who was the Secretary of War at the

00:54:29.469 --> 00:54:32.869
time, said, in light of your political actions,

00:54:32.949 --> 00:54:35.130
there's no way that you can actually have any

00:54:35.130 --> 00:54:38.230
sort of role in this war by this government.

00:54:38.590 --> 00:54:43.170
So Lindbergh's out, essentially. His reputation

00:54:43.170 --> 00:54:51.010
is destroyed. America first continues to exist.

00:54:52.130 --> 00:54:54.829
They continue even to employ Lindbergh as a speaker.

00:54:56.829 --> 00:55:01.429
But when Pearl Harbor happens, this is kind of

00:55:01.429 --> 00:55:05.329
like a wake -up call, because if you think about

00:55:05.329 --> 00:55:08.090
it, a lot of the things that they have been talking

00:55:08.090 --> 00:55:10.130
about, like impregnable defense, there is no

00:55:10.130 --> 00:55:14.170
such thing as an impregnable defense. It illustrates

00:55:14.170 --> 00:55:17.730
kind of the fallacy and the naivete of a lot

00:55:17.730 --> 00:55:22.329
of the things that they were proposing as solutions

00:55:22.329 --> 00:55:27.329
to avoiding war. The war in the Far East was

00:55:27.329 --> 00:55:29.710
not necessarily something that a lot of people

00:55:29.710 --> 00:55:32.530
that were part of America First were opposed

00:55:32.530 --> 00:55:36.510
to. However, what happens subsequently is that

00:55:36.510 --> 00:55:40.050
Hitler and Mussolini declare war on the United

00:55:40.050 --> 00:55:44.510
States. And this, this is what causes America

00:55:44.510 --> 00:55:47.570
first to vote to dissolve itself on 11 December,

00:55:48.210 --> 00:56:10.929
which I think is interesting. the last incarnation

00:56:10.929 --> 00:56:13.469
of America First that we were talking about,

00:56:14.230 --> 00:56:17.210
the movement to oppose U .S. entry into World

00:56:17.210 --> 00:56:21.710
War II, essentially came to an end when Germany

00:56:21.710 --> 00:56:25.349
and fascist Italy declared war on the United

00:56:25.349 --> 00:56:29.789
States in December of 1941. Now, I think it's

00:56:29.789 --> 00:56:35.349
important to consider the consequences, both

00:56:35.349 --> 00:56:38.670
the real ones and the absence of consequences

00:56:38.670 --> 00:56:45.170
that occurred following the dissolution of the

00:56:45.170 --> 00:56:49.409
organization. So politicians such as Hamilton

00:56:49.409 --> 00:56:54.989
Fish and Burton Wheeler lost their seats. Hamilton

00:56:54.989 --> 00:57:01.050
Fish lost his during World War II. Burton Wheeler

00:57:01.050 --> 00:57:07.519
lost his seat in 1946 when he was opposed during

00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:13.000
primary out in Montana. Wheeler was actually

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:17.320
under investigation for his actions to support

00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:21.219
the Nazis by the FBI, and he actually went to

00:57:21.219 --> 00:57:24.900
Harry Truman, a fellow senator, a former fellow

00:57:24.900 --> 00:57:28.559
senator, and asked Harry to call off the investigation

00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:32.219
into his affairs, which he successfully did.

00:57:32.510 --> 00:57:37.090
So Wheeler was able to escape without any serious

00:57:37.090 --> 00:57:41.150
prosecution other than the loss of his seat.

00:57:42.429 --> 00:57:47.789
Okay. What we didn't see, other than, say, politicians

00:57:47.789 --> 00:57:52.110
who were prominent and spokesmen for America

00:57:52.110 --> 00:57:55.070
First and for the Nazis, we didn't see really

00:57:55.070 --> 00:57:59.050
a reckoning that occurred similar to what happened

00:57:59.050 --> 00:58:02.190
regarding the 1930s activities of the Communist

00:58:02.190 --> 00:58:06.889
Party and its followers. People that were pro

00:58:06.889 --> 00:58:10.469
-Nazi or advocated for this nostalgic view of

00:58:10.469 --> 00:58:13.829
America that never really existed managed to

00:58:13.829 --> 00:58:17.230
just scamper back into their holes and avoid

00:58:17.230 --> 00:58:20.989
any sort of prosecution whatsoever. There was

00:58:20.989 --> 00:58:27.760
never any potent symbol to basically Negate or

00:58:27.760 --> 00:58:32.699
undermine these sort of racist views These ideas

00:58:32.699 --> 00:58:35.719
are not really, you know fascist ideas racist

00:58:35.719 --> 00:58:39.440
ideas were not really established we're not really

00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:43.079
challenged in the way that communism was and

00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:45.820
Advocates such as Fred Trump were able to pursue

00:58:45.820 --> 00:58:50.280
their beliefs more or less unchallenged It should

00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:53.139
be noted Trump was such an awful person that

00:58:53.139 --> 00:58:56.550
he was the subject of us Woody Guthrie song due

00:58:56.550 --> 00:58:59.329
to his extreme racism. Woody had actually invited

00:58:59.329 --> 00:59:02.809
some African Americans over to visit him in a

00:59:02.809 --> 00:59:04.969
property that he was renting from Trump, and

00:59:04.969 --> 00:59:07.010
Trump's cinema strongly worded notes saying people

00:59:07.010 --> 00:59:09.349
like that aren't welcomed here. You can't even

00:59:09.349 --> 00:59:15.659
have guests over. Communism and socialisms, which

00:59:15.659 --> 00:59:18.139
are political persuasions that most Americans

00:59:18.139 --> 00:59:21.539
don't know or fully understand except as pejoratives,

00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:26.119
the kind of racially charged eugenics -based

00:59:26.119 --> 00:59:29.320
views of what constitute American purists still

00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:33.440
persist. While this view may no longer be include

00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:36.400
depicting people of Southern and Eastern European

00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:39.599
origin as racially inferior, this does not apply

00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:43.800
to people whose origins lie elsewhere. Now we

00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:46.960
see the same sort of rhetoric used against people

00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:52.440
from Latin America or South America. So the term

00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.679
Americanism with all of its hatreds, bigotries,

00:59:56.119 --> 01:00:01.639
racism, and misplaced nostalgia that has never

01:00:01.639 --> 01:00:04.440
been described as anti -American, which has been

01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:07.280
the case for communism and socialism. The failure

01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:09.840
to drive a stake into the heart of all that America

01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:14.420
first has meant has led to the rise again in

01:00:14.420 --> 01:00:18.139
the civil rights era of the Ku Klux Klan. the

01:00:18.139 --> 01:00:20.739
presidential runs of people such as Strom Thurmond

01:00:20.739 --> 01:00:25.239
in 1948 and George Wallace in 1968 with the Republican

01:00:25.239 --> 01:00:28.179
Party winning elections again and again over

01:00:28.179 --> 01:00:31.119
what became called as the Southern Strategy.

01:00:31.820 --> 01:00:35.239
has resulted in an increasingly divided America.

01:00:35.780 --> 01:00:38.960
It is worth noting that the racial stance of

01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:41.659
many Republican officials today makes someone

01:00:41.659 --> 01:00:45.179
like Calvin Coolidge too liberal to run as a

01:00:45.179 --> 01:00:49.559
Republican in the 21st century. So as we think

01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:53.500
about the developments since World War II in

01:00:53.500 --> 01:00:56.239
the world and the U .S. rule in it, and we put

01:00:56.239 --> 01:01:01.429
that in the context of America first, There supposedly

01:01:01.429 --> 01:01:05.449
was a consensus in America after World War two

01:01:05.449 --> 01:01:10.070
that led to the world the world order of the

01:01:10.070 --> 01:01:14.949
next 70 or 75 years and that prevailed from the

01:01:14.949 --> 01:01:17.670
end of that war until Donald Trump came down

01:01:17.670 --> 01:01:22.610
the escalator in 2015 in my opinion and the idea

01:01:22.610 --> 01:01:26.570
was was this that the United States had become

01:01:26.570 --> 01:01:30.119
involved in two world wars during the first half

01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:32.820
of the 20th century. Each one more horrible than

01:01:32.820 --> 01:01:34.019
anything that had come before, and they were

01:01:34.019 --> 01:01:36.659
getting worse and worse and worse. And World

01:01:36.659 --> 01:01:38.380
War II ended with the use of nuclear weapons,

01:01:38.739 --> 01:01:40.340
and that suggested that a third World War would

01:01:40.340 --> 01:01:42.480
be far worse again than anything that had been

01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:45.960
experienced so far. And with millions of people

01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:49.900
dying in these wars, the idea was the old way

01:01:49.900 --> 01:01:53.199
of doing things, that old European way, relying

01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:56.280
on power politics and the mobilization of armies

01:01:56.280 --> 01:01:59.880
and Empire and all these kinds of things were

01:01:59.880 --> 01:02:02.039
what led to these terrible wars and we had to

01:02:02.039 --> 01:02:03.760
go about this a different way in order to avoid

01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:05.639
them in the future before even more people died

01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:08.739
before the world was destroyed by nuclear weapons

01:02:08.739 --> 01:02:11.360
or or anything terrible anything else terrible

01:02:11.360 --> 01:02:16.539
you can you can imagine and The idea was to go

01:02:16.539 --> 01:02:19.219
out into the world and become involved not make

01:02:19.219 --> 01:02:21.219
the mistake of being isolationist ever again

01:02:21.769 --> 01:02:24.230
And this involvement involved a lot of things

01:02:24.230 --> 01:02:28.210
such as military alliances to make sure military

01:02:28.210 --> 01:02:30.469
power was deployed forward to face our enemies

01:02:30.469 --> 01:02:33.730
before they became too powerful. It also involved

01:02:33.730 --> 01:02:35.949
involvement in international institutions so

01:02:35.949 --> 01:02:38.869
that we could provide financial aid to countries

01:02:38.869 --> 01:02:42.050
that needed it so that we could rebuild our allies

01:02:42.050 --> 01:02:46.750
and our former enemies. Because we wanted to

01:02:46.750 --> 01:02:50.179
stop extreme ideologies like communism. by making

01:02:50.179 --> 01:02:52.300
sure that there weren't any seeds for communism

01:02:52.300 --> 01:02:56.099
to grow in. We wanted to make sure that people

01:02:56.099 --> 01:03:01.079
could live freer lives and become wealthy all

01:03:01.079 --> 01:03:04.519
around the world. And the idea was if they're

01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:06.699
happy and free and comfortable, they're much

01:03:06.699 --> 01:03:08.739
less likely to fight each other or fight us.

01:03:10.059 --> 01:03:13.099
And the idea also was that a rising tide lifts

01:03:13.099 --> 01:03:16.559
all boats so that if we want to be an economic

01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:18.840
powerhouse, We need to be able to trade with

01:03:18.840 --> 01:03:21.340
other people and if in order for them to buy

01:03:21.340 --> 01:03:23.599
things from us They needed to be able to make

01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:26.440
money themselves So if other countries became

01:03:26.440 --> 01:03:29.760
wealthy then we would also become wealthier by

01:03:29.760 --> 01:03:33.579
trading with with with wealthy partners and The

01:03:33.579 --> 01:03:36.139
idea was that that this led to the US leadership

01:03:36.139 --> 01:03:38.300
role in the world in all the different ways that

01:03:38.300 --> 01:03:41.860
it did lead the world from 1945 until about 2015

01:03:41.860 --> 01:03:44.539
And the assumption was that that was the consensus

01:03:45.650 --> 01:03:47.789
But when you think about America first, like

01:03:47.789 --> 01:03:49.869
we've been talking about here, and you look at

01:03:49.869 --> 01:03:54.690
what did happen over those years, that wasn't

01:03:54.690 --> 01:03:57.130
the clear consensus that I think we thought it

01:03:57.130 --> 01:04:02.909
was, that we assumed it was. The end of the Cold

01:04:02.909 --> 01:04:07.210
War, it turns out, seems to have been a big change

01:04:07.210 --> 01:04:10.090
for a lot of people. What consensus there was

01:04:10.090 --> 01:04:12.369
was this idea that communism was this terrible,

01:04:12.409 --> 01:04:14.409
evil, foreign thing that needed to be countered.

01:04:14.409 --> 01:04:18.150
much as we've been talking about before. And

01:04:18.150 --> 01:04:21.190
once that threat was apparently gone at the end

01:04:21.190 --> 01:04:25.050
of 1991 when the Soviet Union collapsed, the

01:04:25.050 --> 01:04:28.230
consensus, whatever it was, began to fray. Because

01:04:28.230 --> 01:04:32.110
for a lot of Americans, they never knew or learned

01:04:32.110 --> 01:04:35.309
or understood that the idea of the American leadership

01:04:35.309 --> 01:04:37.849
of the world was to avoid future wars, was to

01:04:37.849 --> 01:04:41.179
enrich America. There was There were a lot of

01:04:41.179 --> 01:04:43.900
self -interested purposes to our going out and

01:04:43.900 --> 01:04:45.460
trying to lead the world and do all the things

01:04:45.460 --> 01:04:50.320
that we did from 1945 to 2015. Those ideas have

01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:53.159
been never fully absorbed, never fully accepted.

01:04:53.579 --> 01:04:55.699
And after the fall of communism, maybe some of

01:04:55.699 --> 01:04:57.519
them were lost. And as that fell apart, that

01:04:57.519 --> 01:05:00.579
frayed, we wound up to where we are now, where

01:05:00.579 --> 01:05:02.679
we're going back to a lot of those old America

01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:04.800
first kind of principles, and even using the

01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:09.800
term America first again. I would suggest that

01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:12.920
America First was always there. It was simply

01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:15.860
papered over by the Cold War. And when the Cold

01:05:15.860 --> 01:05:18.860
War was over, it began to slowly, slowly reassert

01:05:18.860 --> 01:05:21.539
itself, and in 2015 it finally came back in full

01:05:21.539 --> 01:05:25.219
force. So we are now living in the midst of yet

01:05:25.219 --> 01:05:28.380
another case of America First, which is generally

01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:31.539
proving every bit as potentially damaging to

01:05:31.539 --> 01:05:37.690
the Republic as its previous incarnations. Look

01:05:37.690 --> 01:05:39.829
back on our discussion of America first. I want

01:05:39.829 --> 01:05:42.650
to mention what it brings to mind for me. So

01:05:42.650 --> 01:05:45.150
people often confuse the terms nation and country

01:05:45.150 --> 01:05:48.530
or nation and state and use them interchangeably.

01:05:49.829 --> 01:05:51.650
But nations are not always countries or states

01:05:51.650 --> 01:05:53.610
and countries or states are not always nations.

01:05:54.610 --> 01:05:56.929
A country or a state is just a geographic territory

01:05:56.929 --> 01:05:59.989
that has a central government. But a nation is

01:05:59.989 --> 01:06:01.269
a group of people who believe that they have

01:06:01.269 --> 01:06:04.059
a shared identity. If the people who make up

01:06:04.059 --> 01:06:05.820
a nation all live within the boundaries of the

01:06:05.820 --> 01:06:08.280
same country or state then that is a nation -state

01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:10.539
But being a state doesn't automatically make

01:06:10.539 --> 01:06:13.739
you a nation or vice versa ever since the rise

01:06:13.739 --> 01:06:15.920
of modern nationalism the idea of nationhood

01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:18.099
has been based on the sharing of a common ethnicity

01:06:18.099 --> 01:06:21.860
and culture language often a common religion

01:06:21.860 --> 01:06:24.440
and definitely a sense of a shared history and

01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:28.219
a shared destiny and patriotism to a nation -state

01:06:28.510 --> 01:06:30.750
means loyalty to what's been called blood and

01:06:30.750 --> 01:06:33.570
soil, and that means to your ethnic cohort and

01:06:33.570 --> 01:06:37.349
to the land on which it lives. I was always taught

01:06:37.349 --> 01:06:39.250
that the United States is something different.

01:06:40.429 --> 01:06:45.110
Over time, and it's been a very messy history,

01:06:45.610 --> 01:06:49.170
many fits and starts, Americans have forged a

01:06:49.170 --> 01:06:52.530
nation state based on ideas in the Declaration

01:06:52.530 --> 01:06:55.150
of Independence and the Constitution, not based

01:06:55.150 --> 01:06:58.429
on blood and soil. And those ideas that people

01:06:58.429 --> 01:07:00.030
should be equal and everyone should have a say

01:07:00.030 --> 01:07:02.150
in who governs them and how they're governed,

01:07:02.289 --> 01:07:04.909
and it shouldn't take into account race or religion

01:07:04.909 --> 01:07:08.630
or language or ethnicity. And while patriotic

01:07:08.630 --> 01:07:11.550
Americans may have put America first, they also

01:07:11.550 --> 01:07:13.210
made America the least exclusive club in the

01:07:13.210 --> 01:07:15.730
world. If you're willing to take the oath of

01:07:15.730 --> 01:07:18.889
citizenship, go to work, pay your taxes, and

01:07:18.889 --> 01:07:20.750
raise your kids to be good citizens, you are

01:07:20.750 --> 01:07:23.170
welcome to come here and participate and become

01:07:23.170 --> 01:07:27.639
a fellow citizen. So the term America first is

01:07:27.639 --> 01:07:30.039
a bumper sticker slogan and it seems to convey

01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:31.880
something admirable and innocent like chanting

01:07:31.880 --> 01:07:34.719
USA USA or cheering for your favorite sports

01:07:34.719 --> 01:07:37.980
team It seems to simply state a loyalty first

01:07:37.980 --> 01:07:40.820
and foremost to the United States and who could

01:07:40.820 --> 01:07:43.800
be against that But we've seen that America first

01:07:43.800 --> 01:07:46.079
as a concept never really has been about the

01:07:46.079 --> 01:07:48.719
idea of America as a place of inclusion and equality

01:07:48.719 --> 01:07:51.559
and commonality In fact, it's the opposite. It's

01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:54.219
exclusionary. What America first is really mean

01:07:54.219 --> 01:07:57.070
is that only people like them who look like them,

01:07:57.309 --> 01:07:59.550
who sound like them, who share their religious

01:07:59.550 --> 01:08:01.650
and political beliefs, who have been here for

01:08:01.650 --> 01:08:05.449
as long as they have, really belong here. And

01:08:05.449 --> 01:08:07.610
it conveys the idea that the essence of America

01:08:07.610 --> 01:08:10.550
relies on homogeneity rather than on freedom

01:08:10.550 --> 01:08:13.469
and inclusion. And that means that insisting

01:08:13.469 --> 01:08:16.050
on sameness and conformity is what makes America

01:08:16.050 --> 01:08:18.829
great. And the only way to achieve that sameness

01:08:18.829 --> 01:08:20.970
and conformity is to get back to a mythical lost

01:08:20.970 --> 01:08:23.409
past when everyone was the same and agreed with

01:08:23.409 --> 01:08:25.489
each other on everything. And the only way to

01:08:25.489 --> 01:08:29.350
do that is to suppress and marginalize or expel

01:08:29.350 --> 01:08:33.109
those who do not conform. So be careful when

01:08:33.109 --> 01:08:35.270
you're lying with anyone who wants America First.

01:08:36.069 --> 01:08:38.229
America First has a very fraught history. And

01:08:38.229 --> 01:08:40.750
if you forget that, or never knew it, then you

01:08:40.750 --> 01:08:42.390
don't realize that the idea of America First

01:08:42.390 --> 01:08:45.050
isn't a harmless expression of patriotism. It

01:08:45.050 --> 01:08:46.970
sets an authoritarian trap that you can fall

01:08:46.970 --> 01:08:55.989
into. Thank you for listening. We hope you learned

01:08:55.989 --> 01:08:58.210
something, and we hope you discovered new ways

01:08:58.210 --> 01:09:00.750
of looking at things you had already heard or

01:09:00.750 --> 01:09:03.510
thought about, or perhaps hadn't heard about.

01:09:04.510 --> 01:09:07.609
If you enjoyed it, that's great. If we made you

01:09:07.609 --> 01:09:11.289
mad, that's okay too. Either way, email us at

01:09:11.289 --> 01:09:15.250
usa .amnesia at gmail .com and let us know what

01:09:15.250 --> 01:09:18.569
you think. Also, let us know about anything you

01:09:18.569 --> 01:09:20.810
think we missed or got wrong. We'd like to know

01:09:20.810 --> 01:09:24.619
about that too. And of course, please like and

01:09:24.619 --> 01:09:26.420
subscribe and let your friends and neighbors

01:09:26.420 --> 01:09:30.260
know about us. We also have a website. It's www

01:09:30.260 --> 01:09:37.199
.usofamnesia .com. For Marshall, Mike and myself.

01:09:37.779 --> 01:09:38.600
Till next time.